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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:50 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:15 am
Posts: 109
Location: Rhode Island
Car Model*: 1968 Barracuda - Fastback
Is there a way of improving the non-power SBP 9" drum brake hardware or upgrading to larger size drums for '68 Barracuda?

Funds are tight and disks are not in the immediate picture.

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'68 Barracuda - taking advice on increasing street torque, power, & road handling. https://www.instagram.com/csheehy_cuda68/


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 2378
Location: Indianapolis
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I have never done this, but there are internet articles that discuss venting drum brakes to improve drum brake performance.

one such article is at the link below

http://www.chtopping.com/CustomRod4/

if you do that, post how it worked for you, would be an interesting alternative to disks
I would think that a 72 down drum brake set up is lighter than a 73 and up disk brake

also,
1) use a quality brake fluid and keep it fresh
2) have the wheel cylinders / brake components in top shape
3) use racing style braded flex hoses, you will want all the pressure you can get going to the wheel cylinders
4) last but not least, I would want a dual master cylinder


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 5934
Location: So California
Car Model*: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Not sure of the year(s), but early 9" drums didn't have fins, and later years did.

So changing from non-fins to fins would help.


There may also be shoes out there with better linings.

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:02 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:15 am
Posts: 109
Location: Rhode Island
Car Model*: 1968 Barracuda - Fastback
DadTruck - all good tips!

I recall reading years ago about drum drilling, intriguing - but I'm not sure I have the coconuts to do it. Their wording on their website is also factualy unsupportive (in my opinion) of any benefits. Considering new materials gas-off considerably less than the old organic materials, drilling to reduce gas expansion is a non-issue. Cooling might be the greatest benefit... but at street speeds, any gain is probably negligible.

emsvitil - fins are definitely in the right direction, more surface area. TY

Still wondering...
Is there any hard-information on big drum-brake upgrades?
Has any of the hardware been updated (trucks perhaps?) over the years?
Manufacturer recommendations?

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'68 Barracuda - taking advice on increasing street torque, power, & road handling. https://www.instagram.com/csheehy_cuda68/


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:37 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
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DadTruck wrote:
also,
1) use a quality brake fluid and keep it fresh
2) have the wheel cylinders / brake components in top shape
3) use racing style braded flex hoses, you will want all the pressure you can get going to the wheel cylinders
4) last but not least, I would want a dual master cylinder

The only thing I'd add is make damn sure your self-adjuster hardware is installed and functioning correctly. If not, then usually you'll just get a lower and lower pedal as the shoes wear, but I once lost my brakes completely when one of my self adjusters came out of place.

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Somehow I ended up owning three 1964 slant six A-bodies. I race one of them.
Escape Velocity Racing


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:56 am 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:48 pm
Posts: 5889
Location: Burton BC canada
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Drive an A body with 4 wheel disc sometime.....

…..my 8.8 rear has 11" rotors ….and a 9" drum parking brake.

You just cant drive in modern traffic with 9" drums. You will die on any Interstate that goes over a pass.

If your car is never driven 9" drums are perfect.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Location: Everett, WA
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By the time you get done making all of the "improvements", maybe you should check out the scarebird disk brake conversion. Relatively cheap and you keep the small bolt pattern.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 5934
Location: So California
Car Model*: 64 Plymouth Valiant
sandy in BC wrote:
Drive an A body with 4 wheel disc sometime.....

…..my 8.8 rear has 11" rotors ….and a 9" drum parking brake.

You just cant drive in modern traffic with 9" drums. You will die on any Interstate that goes over a pass.

If your car is never driven 9" drums are perfect.



I'm driving with 9" drums...……………

I added Front and Rear anti-roll bars so I don't have to slow down for corners.

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Ed

64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:22 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
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Location: SW Washington
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9" drums are a dead end. Turn around. Save your money for a disc upgrade. It's really not that expensive. The only reason to keep drums is because you have to comply with rules such as in a racing class.

25 years ago my daily driver was a '66 Dart. One "fun" stop from freeway speeds and the next stop was difficult. I had bad dreams where I couldn't stop the car and so it eventually got the late A body disc brakes which are a monumental improvement. Another daily driver, a 1973 Duster, had finned 9" drums and those worked better than the plain drums. I don't know if those drums and hubs go straight on or not. You'd want to look at what wheel bearings they both use. If they will bolt on and are near zero cost I'd use them, but I wouldn't seek them out and pay money for them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1261
Location: TEXAS
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Quote:
Is there a way of improving the non-power SBP 9" drum brake hardware or upgrading to larger size drums for '68 Barracuda?
NO!

Save up and get discs if you plan to drive the car very much.
Donor cars are still out there and affordable.
Ford 8.8 rearend is the Best and most reasonably priced way to get rear discs.

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1964 Dart GT


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:47 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Florida
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A point not given much airtime yet, brakes only stop the wheels, tires stop the car.
Meaning we don't know your expected tire package, and if your current drum system will lock up your tires without difficulty, you likely have sufficient braking for at least one stop. A little testing can indicate how many additional consecutive stops might be be possible.
I am not implying a disk upgrade is not an improvement, only the sky and your wallet is that limit.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:36 am 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Location: Winchester, Va
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I've drilled my backing plates and drums on all four wheels on my 64 Dart using a method similar to the one listed in the reply above.. It works. It acts as a centrifugal air pump. The brakes stop very well, don't fade, and wick water out almost instantly. As an added bonus, there's absolutely no buildup of brake dust. If anything, I'm let down by my lack of contact patch and tire compound.. I get lockup if I'm not careful. I did this as a stopgap until I could afford discs, and a suspension upgrade. I'm still going to put discs on, but the only reason why I can't stop is because the tiny tires on the skinny rims are sliding, not because the brakes aren't working. Are 9" drums ideal? No. However, they are only being asked to stop a 2700 pound car (my Dart, I imagine the fish is a bit heavier). If the car's being driven as intended (comfortably limited by gearing and tire to 55-65), they aren't the horror they're perceived to be if they've got some ventilation. Yes, my Dart is daily driven (as much as it can be in my fleet of eight antique beaters).

I'm happy to tell everyone how I did it, as I can't seem to find the website's page anymore..

Edit:: Found it!

http://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/1963-R ... index.html

This guy's got it worse than we do in terms of support, and aftermarket parts.. He's got a fetish for the unloved Ramblers.

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63 Valiant 200
64 Dart 270
73 Fury II
84 Cherokee 2 dr
86 Dodge W-150
73 Volvo 144
74 Volvo 145
81 Volvo 245


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:56 pm
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Location: TEXAS
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my answer is still, NO!
When I first purchased my Dart (1964 GT) I completely rebuilt the brake system back to original specs with the only upgrade being a dual m/c (New wheel cylinders, lines, drums, shoes, e-brake cable, everything!) and it cost more than I spent on ALL the parts for a disc swap from a 75 Dart, 78 Cordoba spindles and a junkyard Ford 8.8 combined. 9" drums are a waste of time and money unless you are restoring an Original Show Car, IMHO.

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1964 Dart GT


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:56 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:15 am
Posts: 109
Location: Rhode Island
Car Model*: 1968 Barracuda - Fastback
Once again the collective voice has influenced my decision. A future disc brake upgrade it is.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their experience and comments. Much; much appreciated!

Have a great weekend everyone,
-Chris

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'68 Barracuda - taking advice on increasing street torque, power, & road handling. https://www.instagram.com/csheehy_cuda68/


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:10 am 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:04 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Winchester, Va
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Danarchy wrote:
my answer is still, NO!
When I first purchased my Dart (1964 GT) I completely rebuilt the brake system back to original specs with the only upgrade being a dual m/c (New wheel cylinders, lines, drums, shoes, e-brake cable, everything!) and it cost more than I spent on ALL the parts for a disc swap from a 75 Dart, 78 Cordoba spindles and a junkyard Ford 8.8 combined. 9" drums are a waste of time and money unless you are restoring an Original Show Car, IMHO.


I'm not keeping my 9" drums, and I agree with you. Did this happen before rockauto and the recent boom where everybody thinks that their clapped out junk is worth thousands? I'm having a helluva time finding anything used for old mopars that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

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63 Valiant 200

64 Dart 270

73 Fury II

84 Cherokee 2 dr

86 Dodge W-150

73 Volvo 144

74 Volvo 145

81 Volvo 245


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