The most effecent way to cool a engine is with stright water . Why do you think fire engines use water other than a mixture. Water will disspate heat faster and better than glycol. Why do you think this is basic chemstry. One could add a water wetter whitch is a water lube to make the water a bit slicker but that is about all. I have two gallions of trick oil from Swepco I will give to any body because they made clamis like that. Thanks Ron Parker






Jaggers Fabrication Slanted Attitude Dart

Wrong.



They don't.



Nope. Water has a higher specific heat than glycol, but water has a lower boiling point, which causes the vapour barrier effect discussed further up this thread.



Nope, it's chemistry and thermodynamics and physics, and a great deal more complex than you seem to think it is.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Well mr Smartie Britches answer this question for me When I pulled to Valdosta I accidently did not shut the raditator cap on mY truck and blew all of the coolant out by the time I got To Valdosta. Charlie Schmit was there and witnessed this. Going down the engine ran at 185 to 190 until all the coolant blew out then it went to 260. We cooled the engine down and put pure water in it and I towed back 300 miles home with pure water in it it ran at 160 degrees so what is your best guess . I doint look for stuff that might work I use stuff that works. Thanks Ron Parker
PS I will give you two gallions of SWEPCO oil that they said would make your car run a tenth quicker. Slowed my car down over Mobil One




Jaggers Fafrication Slanted Attitude Dart

I spent a number of years in the heavy duty cooling/heating biz. This included Stationary engineering, marine engineering and ,yes, firefighting. (I have tickets in all three and one in auto mechanics)
None of these industries use straight water for anything that involves heating/cooling (yes, they are the same thing) Even in marine engineering salt water intercoolers are used to cool fresh water that is treated to prevent corrosion, "bubbles", freezing, cavitation etc etc.
All boilers use treated coolant, all heavy trucks use some kind of coolant additive. Fire fighters here use clay based retardent or foam based injection with water.
I cant think of a worse commonly available coolant than water for a whole pile of reasons. Even water based refridgeration units use "brine".
The good part about water is wide based availability.

Hell, I even cool myself with ale rather than water.......
Hell, I even heat myself with scotch rather than water......



I hear you Matt......

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

Dan must have thought i was talking about the engine in the fire engine. Yep Dan To put out a fire with a firengine you use water. Maybe a tad of lubrancant for the pump. I have 30 years of firefighting experenice a Degree in Fire Sicence Technoghy I have never seen a Fire Appuratus use any type of glycol products to put out a fire. If you used a glycol on a fire what are you going to do about the runoff. Thanks Ron Parker







Jaggers Fabrication Slanted Attitude Dart

You never used foam?

I was once on the receiving end of a 12 door load from a DC6 air tanker......you better believe its not just water.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

Yes we used afff foam and had some purple k . According to the fire. Thanks Ron Parker










Jaggers Fabrication Slanted Attitude Dart

No. I have no interest in arguing with you, Mr. Parker. I will continue to point out when you say stuff that isn't (can't be) supported with facts and science, and that's all.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

The Thermal Conductivity of water decreases with the addition of Glycol.

Water conducts heat away from an engine better when it's not mixed with anything. Unfortunately, water cavitates rather quickly if it is subjected to high temperatures without an increasing pressure or mixing with other compounds. As pressure increases, so goes the cavitation temperature. Various sallts and organics can inhibit cavitation.



My largest concern with the product from Evans was that it was easily three times the lesser conductor of heat as exibited by water.
That it was jello at 40 Degrees was secondary. My engine doesn't need to be cooled to 40 degrees. But a Viscosity of eight something thousand is a bit of a concern if one enters the fray in the northern climates on, say, January 5th. Pumping axle grease in Marquette on a chilly morning into a compound that doesn't receive heat quickly just made the morning a bit longer. It's not likely to be an issue unless you're late for work. That the hot spots are going to get hotter, and the cold spots are going to suffer from a lack of coolant is a concern.
The pump is not going to do much work spitting through the bypass. How a heater is going to function in the short term is yet to be divined.

If we're talking about a race car, then it doesn't matter. For the Norhterner, turn on the block heater and let it take the wait out.

I've got CRS bad. I went through my Thermodynamics Classes and Heat Transfer & Fluid Flow courses so many years ago, I'm probably full of dog-squat.
I will wait for the young to develop new enlightenment in this arena. Please prove me wrong. I'd love to be enlightened to wisdom. This stuff lights up red for me.

CJ

...and it's suitability for cooling most engines increases to a degree that outweighs the decrease.



Exactly. Which is why it's misleading and unduly simplistic to say "Water is the best coolant".



H'mm. Maybe I'm looking at a different set of numbers -- where (specifically) are you seeing these?



Maybe and maybe not. I like discussing the matter with you, because your comments are thoughtful, informed, and grammatical.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

so...if he is grammatical....does that mean he thinks like a grandmother?

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

Just to add, uh, fuel to the fire...

One very good reason why ethylene glycol isn't useful in putting out fires is that it is, itself, flammable. It isn't a huge fire hazard or anything, but it does burn.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

On a related topic... Many years ago antifreeze was alcohol based. If you couldn't make the payments on your car (Model A Ford), you simply had to overheat it until it boiled over. The car would burst into flames. Viola. Insurance took care of the car.

At least, that's what the old timers used to say.

-Mac

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it seems to me that we are discussing 2 very different things. Just because a substance is suitable for extiguishing a fire does not imply that it is suitable for use as coolant in an internal combustion engine. Hell, sand will put out a fire but you wouldn't put it in your radiator. To try to link the two is just plain silly.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

Straight water will put out a fire....but I wouldn t put it in my radiator.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....