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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Trans main shaft has different splines, any one done this before?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:44 pm 
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What's the goal you have in mind?

I was excited about the idea when I did it in a 904 put together for my '65. That was a rod-shift transmission, and if I recall correctly (maybe not!) that was because the wide-ratio gearset couldn't be swapped into a cable-shift transmission such as you're asking about. The "upgrade" (note the sneer quotes) required a different driveshaft, different steering column, shift linkage, and other adaptations.

After all the work and expense, I wound up disappointed in the results. I tried to like it for a couple of years—I really tried—but the idea I'd had, to use the wide ratios for extra acceleration and performance with 3.23 rear gears, did not work out. Second gear was too low, first was much too low, and the gaps between 1—2, 2—3, 3—2, and 3—1 were too wide. It was a very annoying transmission to drive, made more so by the extra-noisy first gear whine inherent to the wide-ratio gear set. Eventually I wound up much happier after swapping in a stock '66 transmission.

These wide-ratio gears can work strategically in certain race car setups, I'm told. And they were the only thing that made the heavy, weak-engined '80s cars with ridiculously tall rear axle ratios like 2.45 or 2.26 (barely) safe to drive in traffic.

If you figure out a way to put the wide-ratio gears in your cable-shift trans, do not fail to also install the matching governor weights, inner and outer. If you leave the standard governor installed, the transmission will be even more annoying: no matter how you adjust the shift linkage or the bands, it will not shift correctly; you'll find you can adjust the linkage to get acceptable upshifts or acceptable downshifts, but not both, and if you're really pouring on the coal to get up to speed, it'll stay in second, engine screaming, until you back off the accelerator.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:33 am 
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I am also not a fan of the wide ratio. But, if that is your goal, then you can do it if you swap in the later style guts with the large (67 or 68-up?) input shafts. This gives you more converter choices anyway and a stronger input shaft combo. Of course, if you have a small pocket crank, then you'll need to open that up (machine it) or find someone willing to sell a "hybrid" converter.

Lou

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:41 am 
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SlantSixDan wrote:
What's the goal you have in mind?

I was excited about the idea when I did it in a 904 put together for my '65. That was a rod-shift transmission, and if I recall correctly (maybe not!) that was because the wide-ratio gearset couldn't be swapped into a cable-shift transmission such as you're asking about. The "upgrade" (note the sneer quotes) required a different driveshaft, different steering column, shift linkage, and other adaptations.

After all the work and expense, I wound up disappointed in the results. I tried to like it for a couple of years—I really tried—but the idea I'd had, to use the wide ratios for extra acceleration and performance with 3.23 rear gears, did not work out. Second gear was too low, first was much too low, and the gaps between 1—2, 2—3, 3—2, and 3—1 were too wide. It was a very annoying transmission to drive, made more so by the extra-noisy first gear whine inherent to the wide-ratio gear set. Eventually I wound up much happier after swapping in a stock '66 transmission.

These wide-ratio gears can work strategically in certain race car setups, I'm told. And they were the only thing that made the heavy, weak-engined '80s cars with ridiculously tall rear axle ratios like 2.45 or 2.26 (barely) safe to drive in traffic.

If you figure out a way to put the wide-ratio gears in your cable-shift trans, do not fail to also install the matching governor weights, inner and outer. If you leave the standard governor installed, the transmission will be even more annoying: no matter how you adjust the shift linkage or the bands, it will not shift correctly; you'll find you can adjust the linkage to get acceptable upshifts or acceptable downshifts, but not both, and if you're really pouring on the coal to get up to speed, it'll stay in second, engine screaming, until you back off the accelerator.


Sounded like to me the 3.23 ratio was the main issue in your situation, in that a lower numerical ratio would have reduced at least two of your mentioned concerns, and might have reduced the others with the car moving at a higher speed. I have not heard of wide ratios being good racing generally, so the certain racing set-ups have to be very specific I would assume.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:03 am 
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SlantSixDan wrote:
What's the goal you have in mind?

I was excited about the idea when I did it in a 904 put together for my '65. That was a rod-shift transmission, and if I recall correctly (maybe not!) that was because the wide-ratio gearset couldn't be swapped into a cable-shift transmission such as you're asking about. The "upgrade" (note the sneer quotes) required a different driveshaft, different steering column, shift linkage, and other adaptations.

After all the work and expense, I wound up disappointed in the results. I tried to like it for a couple of years—I really tried—but the idea I'd had, to use the wide ratios for extra acceleration and performance with 3.23 rear gears, did not work out. Second gear was too low, first was much too low, and the gaps between 1—2, 2—3, 3—2, and 3—1 were too wide. It was a very annoying transmission to drive, made more so by the extra-noisy first gear whine inherent to the wide-ratio gear set. Eventually I wound up much happier after swapping in a stock '66 transmission.

These wide-ratio gears can work strategically in certain race car setups, I'm told. And they were the only thing that made the heavy, weak-engined '80s cars with ridiculously tall rear axle ratios like 2.45 or 2.26 (barely) safe to drive in traffic.

If you figure out a way to put the wide-ratio gears in your cable-shift trans, do not fail to also install the matching governor weights, inner and outer. If you leave the standard governor installed, the transmission will be even more annoying: no matter how you adjust the shift linkage or the bands, it will not shift correctly; you'll find you can adjust the linkage to get acceptable upshifts or acceptable downshifts, but not both, and if you're really pouring on the coal to get up to speed, it'll stay in second, engine screaming, until you back off the accelerator.


In that regard of wide ratios, what would happen if I put an A833OD in my own car, with a lower geared rear end like a 3.55 or 3.73? (The current 2.76 would be way too high with an OD trans, and the other two ratios would be like a 2.6 and 2.72 in top gear)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:24 am 
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Sorry guys, but the later low gear set cannot be installed into a PB trans, without major mods. I have tried it. The splines on the planetary, are different then the splines on the early output shaft. You would have to change to the later output shaft, that means swaping to the late tailhousing, which doesn't work, as the early tailhousing contains the rear pump and park mechanism. It could probably be done, but is it really worth the effort?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:54 am 
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jcc wrote:
Sounded like to me the 3.23 ratio was the main issue in your situation


…so I swapped in a 2.76 centre chunk and still hated it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:57 am 
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Charrlie_S wrote:
Sorry guys, but the later low gear set cannot be installed into a PB trans, without major mods. I have tried it. The splines on the planetary, are different then the splines on the early output shaft. You would have to change to the later output shaft, that means swaping to the late tailhousing, which doesn't work, as the early tailhousing contains the rear pump and park mechanism.


Thank you. That brings back the rest of the memory. We built a '68 or '69 trans for the '65, which needed a small-nose torque converter, so we used '66-'67 input shaft and front pump parts. Lots of parts-chasing (and parts-buying $$$$) only to learn that it wasn't anywhere near such a good idea as I thought it would be.

I'd have been happier (and spent a whole lot less time and money) sticking with the regular gearset and optimising via choice of torque converter.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Panzerschreckleopard wrote:

In that regard of wide ratios, what would happen if I put an A833OD in my own car, with a lower geared rear end like a 3.55 or 3.73? (The current 2.76 would be way too high with an OD trans, and the other two ratios would be like a 2.6 and 2.72 in top gear)



I have an a833 od in an A-body and it is fine with 3.55's, should be fine with 3.73's.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Off topic subject, needs to move to it's own thread....

x2

The 3.55 works fine with the wide ratio A-833OD and are very streetable and nice at highway cruise at 65mph, 3.73 wouldn't be too bad either, more than that and the 1-2 upshift is not so great as the rpm band drops greatly when you get to 2,... but then again with 4.56's you don't use 1st gear at all, you end up starting in 2nd gear instead unless starting up a hill...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:56 pm 
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DusterIdiot wrote:
Off topic subject, needs to move to it's own thread....


That's why I stopped, sorry.

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