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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:17 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:29 pm
Posts: 6
Location: gig Harbor
Car Model:
Hey guys thanks for all the help on the exhust leak problem..... One last question its about the washers and bolts I have for the intake and exhust manifolds, how many trianglar washers should I have and what does the conical washers look like? The artical shows 8 triangular washiers and 2 brass washers with special nuts and 3 conical washiers (what are these) and what do they look like??? Thanks again for all the help..340man


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:29 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:29 am
Posts: 499
Location: Corning, CA - middle of nowhere
Car Model:
Howdy, well, I am dealing with that very subject - matter of fact I'm hoping the girlfriend doesn't notice the dark and greasy feeling of the keyboard now!!!

Anyway, I just got a new gasket - and it turns out all of my studs are too short to support the thickness of the gasket, with the original spacers etc. on them!!

I have been forced to use plain washers! I put two on each one so they can "move" in hopes this works!

I have no idea why stuff like this happens to me!! ????????
Did I put short studs in the head? NO WAY
Did I end up having to deal with it?? OF COURSE!!!

hahahahaha

As to your question - I know where they go but not so much exactly why - other than the manifolds need to "float" during the heating and cooling cycles. I know others will splain it lots better n me!

Later,
Dan

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"I may be slow, but at least I'm not very fast!"
'69 A108 - 225, 727, 3.55, MSD6AL, a.k.a.-the brick
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:57 am
Posts: 1818
Car Model:
one round washer top dead center ...two brass/with special nut each end, rest triangle ....I use a small screwdriver to install them and nuts DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN 10-12 LBS MAX


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:42 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:12 am
Posts: 116
Location: madison, wi.
Car Model:
i wouldn't use the plain washers, the correct conical washers KEEP a preload on the manifolds. they are convex shaped.

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Most of the stuff people worry about ain't never gonna happen anyway!!!
chuck Anglemyer
chucks' rod garage


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:53 am 
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Guru
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:22 am
Posts: 3740
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model: Many Darts and a Dacuda
The cast iron conical washer is shown in the photo below (center-right)
That washer is also used on many other Mopar engines.
I only use one on a SL6, top, center position.
The FSM calls for 3 in the early years and then went to using just one, in later years.
DD

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:26 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:29 am
Posts: 499
Location: Corning, CA - middle of nowhere
Car Model:
chuck - only way around my little predicament from what i can see

take it all off - including draining the head and take the short studs out and installing ones a bit longer

by the way - i used two washers that are a little bigger than the "space" and then tightened them up until they both have a touch of a bend to them

i'm also running one of the exhaust manifolds with the ribs through it - a little tougher i am hoping

until i get my cheapy duals made that is! lol

anyhow - after running it around for over an hour yesterday
no leaks so far and it's finally starting to run like it used to
only better! haha

later
dan

_________________
"I may be slow, but at least I'm not very fast!"

'69 A108 - 225, 727, 3.55, MSD6AL, a.k.a.-the brick

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:50 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:50 am
Posts: 243
Location: Central Valley, California
Car Model:
I don't know who rebuilt my 170, but they used big brass washers with a conical washer on top. So far no problems. I've got the triangular ones soon to be installed.

DD says he uses just one conical in the center. I'm wondering what he uses on each end.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:57 am
Posts: 1818
Car Model:
upper left corner of his picture the special brass and castle type nut on each end round on in top center, all others triangle

keep on roddin'


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 3805
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model:
what is the purpose of the castle style nuts,,
any reason that when using the correct washers in the correct locations,, normal hex nuts could not be used across the board?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:04 am 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:57 am
Posts: 1818
Car Model:
the castle nut/brass washer on each end so manifold can float those two holes are only in exhast ,do not also hold intake


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:56 am 
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Guru
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 pm
Posts: 4880
Location: Working in Silicon Valley, USA
Car Model:
The castle nut is special, it is really a "pinch-locking" nut.
The nut's coned shape w/ slots fits into the chamfer on the brass washer.
The torque force pinches the end of the nut, so it grips the stud, at a low torque setting, so it does not come loose under heat cycles and operation. The light gasket compression and brass to cast-iron contact allows the exhaust manifold to expand and contract... sliding around under the brass washer.
A well engineered fastener system that is easily defeated if incorrect hardware is used.
DD


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:53 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 3805
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model:
hopefully this is not jumping to far off topic,'
but when using Dutra's where the exhaust manifold is a two piece system or steel headers again likely a 2 piece system, and with an exhaust gasket upgrade like the aussie version mixed in,,,,

are stock nuts and bolts and studs and low torque settings still applicable?

thanks


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 Post subject: Good Question DD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:29 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:50 am
Posts: 243
Location: Central Valley, California
Car Model:
What fastener set up do you use when using a modified rear and dutra front casting?

Also, is the nut and washer on the stud in the upper left corner of the picture you posted the castle nut/conical washer?

I've hit the boneyards and it seems when they strip the manifolds off the slants they don't concern themselves with the fasteners....guess they just end up getting buried in the dirt.

I'm good to go except for the castle/conical fasteners

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Super Six Conversion Stromberg


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:46 am 
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Guru
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 pm
Posts: 4880
Location: Working in Silicon Valley, USA
Car Model:
When using a modified factory exhaaust casting, for Dutra Duals, I use the factory's fastener set-up, including the brass washer and lock nut.
As for Dutra exhaust manifolds... those dont care, use anything you want to hold it onto the head... it's so short and beefy, it does not move around much.
DD


Last edited by Doc on Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: where to buy hardware
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:53 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber
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Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:08 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Delaware
Car Model:
What are the best sources for lost or rusted nuts and washers?


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