5" wider track a problem?

[Daddiojoe]

I've been hanging around this site for some years, and have always found you all to give good advice, so now I'd like some help as I delve into, for lack of a better phrase, the streetrod world.

So,,,I've got a 51 Plymouth Cranbrook that I'm building up with mainly A-body parts, including a slant six and a 904 transmission.

I'm looking at front ends and have access to an 85 Diplomat front end. It's a weld-in, and easier than incorporating the 67 Dart front end I also have, has disc brakes, etc. BUT---The track is 5" wider. I'm not too worried about tires bumping into fenders, and I think I might be able to find 2.5" offset wheels, but I would also like input from other considered and intelligent sources.

Sorry for the long post--any words of wisdom?
Thanks,
Joe

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Joe Hoppe

71 D100 225 Super Six 727 AT 3:23 rear
powered by Sweet Lady Propane

[kesteb]

Why change the suspension?

I am sure Fatman's has a clip that will weld right in and use the popular Mustang II setup. I also think they have dropped spindles and a disk brake kit for the stock front end.

[Daddiojoe]

Good questions, Kesteb. The Fatman set-up is over a grand, and I need to save money. And from everything I read and hear, the existing set-up with the Cranbrook, even with disk brakes, is pretty primitive.

Joe

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Joe Hoppe

71 D100 225 Super Six 727 AT 3:23 rear
powered by Sweet Lady Propane

[Matt Cramer]

You've already mentioned the primary problem: Tires bumping into fenders. Trying to solve this with high-offset wheels will change the scrub radius a bit, and you'd need to make sure the wheel cleared your control arms - you'd probably need pretty large diameter wheels, like 18", to make a wheel with 2.5" offset clear this.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

[Old Car Scott]

It is your car and money so you can do what you want, but let me ask, what are you doing with the car that would necessitate hacking it all up and adding a front clip that would look like crap?


1950 Dodge Coronet

Years ago I put a slant six three speed into a 1950 Dodge Coronet four door with a Dodge Aspen rearend.

I keep the stock brake system and suspension and the car was fine as a cruiser.

The manual steering didn't take too much effort, the car stopped really well even with four wheel drums.

It is an advanced independent front suspension system for the time.

You can lower the car with dropped uprights and cut coils, disc brake kits are available, there are even power rack and pinion kits available.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cutting old stuff up, but you really need to think about what you WANT to do with the car.

If you just want to cruise it around the stock stuff is fine and you'd save yourself a bunch of time and dough.

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Scott - 1967 Plymouth Valiant Coupe
Life's a garden, dig it!

[exoJjL]

I think the cranbrooks look pretty like this:
http://ruffrodders.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=175&pictureid=1396

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'73 Scamp (the girlfriend): 225ci super/6 2BBL conversion (Almost done!)
'90 Subaru, wagon (the wife): H4-cyl 2.2L

1977 Mercedes-Benz 300D, 5cyl diesel(For sale!)

[Franklyn]

my regular cruiser is a 49 Plymouth special deluxe, see my signature.
I'm just running the original 218 Flathead and find that the suspension front and back is actually EXCELLENT for cruising/road trips/buzzing around town etc. I've lowered mine a few inches front and back (sitting on 3" blocks and cut coils), which helped tighten up the front suspension a noticeable amount as a benefit.
I guess deciding what you want to do with this car would be key, as I'm sure your suspension is quite similar to mine.

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Franklyn
1965 Dart GT - 1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe

[Daddiojoe]

Franklyn and Scott--

It would cost at least as much to rebuild the existing front end and give it disc brakes as it would to put a Mustang II front end on. I'm getting the Diplomat front end for cheap. A big chunk of this is affordability.

So if for the same amount of $ or less I'm going to have a more modern front end, which in my mind can only help.


Thanks,

Joe

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Joe Hoppe

71 D100 225 Super Six 727 AT 3:23 rear
powered by Sweet Lady Propane

[kesteb]

Sounds to me like a case of "penny wise, pound foolish" and a case of nothing more expensive then a free part.

Yeah, you probable can graft on that front clip. But it really doesn't fit. By the time you are done hacking up the frame and move the steering column, and buying rims that will fit. That $1000 may have been better spent rebuilding the stock suspension.

[Daddiojoe]

After careful consideration, measurements, etc, I'm following you-all's advice. Thanks guys. I'm keeping the front end and hope to one day convert to disc brakes.

I still think it will probably need to be rebuilt. Any advice on where to find a good front end rebuild kit for a 51 Plymouth?


Thanks for the advice,

Joe

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Joe Hoppe

71 D100 225 Super Six 727 AT 3:23 rear
powered by Sweet Lady Propane

[sandy in BC]

Hey Joe!

I have been meaning to chime in on this thread, I have a 51 DeSoto with a B car front clip....and I have put a Diplomat/Volare/Aspen clip in a 65 D100.

I would never use the F body clip again.


The B body subframe swap required fabricating new frame rails from the firewall foreward. Although this was a great swap it requires a lot of complicated work. The track is wider but fits inside the fenders. I used a Lincoln 9"rear axle with discs on stock springs in the rear.

The DeSoto/Dodge/Plymouth suspension and steering is so crude I understand why you would want to upgrade.

I has occured to me a Dakota front clip graft might be the easiest/cheapest way to do this. You get discs and rack and peanut steering. Bad news is a stupid bolt pattern

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....


http://www.arrowtipi.com/My%20Webs/index%20Valiant.htm

[wjajr]

Here, and here are two places.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

[Tim Keith]

Several vendors sell brackets that will enable using late model disk brakes. Here is one reasonable priced kit that I've heard good comments about. http://rustyhope.com/mopardiscbrakes.html

The '30s through early '50s Mopar front suspension is generally good. If you're trying to build a sports can, then no. Many praise the OEM handling when its been rebuilt. You won't find parts at Autozone. Andy Bernbaum, Kanter and other mail order shops have all that you need.

I think Mopars of this era still had king pins, but its an IFS. My '74 Datsun truck has king pins too. The most common concern I hear is adjusting the Lockheed dum brakes, which are different from the self adjusting Bendix brakes of A-bodies. Many people curse the Lockheed as are not often not properly adjusted. Brakes shops mechanics scratch their heads when they see them.

You'll save lots of money by keeping the stock brakes, but if you are building a daily driver you might prefer a disk brake swap. I have 3 Mopars of this era and will keep the OEM suspension, but will probably swap to disk brakes to one of them.

A brake discussion often leads to the hard to find Ammco Model 1750 Brake Gauage that was designed to center the Lockheed brake shoes, but you can make a simple tool that works as well. Fords and other cars used the same tool.

[Daddiojoe]

Thanks, Tim. Scarebird sells a conversion that doesn't require drilling at about the same price. I've used that on my 71 D100 quite happily.

Always appreciate knowledgeable advice,

Joe

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Joe Hoppe

71 D100 225 Super Six 727 AT 3:23 rear
powered by Sweet Lady Propane

[radarsonwheels]

I did my '54 dodge pickup with a setup from rustyhope.com
Worth a try. I did have to drill and tap my knuckles but it wasnt that hard.

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madam im adam