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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:58 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:48 pm
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Location: Burton BC canada
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Well Said Mr Kesteb!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:49 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
kesteb wrote:
So, lets set some ground rules.


Your ground rules may be fine for what you are trying to accomplish, but giving up the tapered runners is not something I wish to do.

kesteb wrote:
The manifold itself will be made out of cheap muffler pipe. Which is easy to weld, easy to shape, and easy to bend. Using Aluminum would triple the cost.


16 gauge steel tubing is exactly what I proposed.

kesteb wrote:
The intake runners will be 1 1/2" and the plenum will be 3".

Now to answer the question of what dimensions you can use.

A standard intake port measures 1 3/8" x 1 1/4". The 16g, 1 1/2" exhaust pipes inside diameter is about 1 3/8". Close enough for government work. The head flange measures 3" x 2" x 1/2". The hardest part is locating the bolt holes and making the opening for the pipe in the flange. I have a diagram on my web site that show how.


1.5" 16ga tubing has only 1.47 square inches of internal area. The stock intake port is 1.68" square. I would suggest 1.625" tubing which has an internal area of 1.75" square. I planned on a 3.5" plenum to get the required volume in a shorter length. I also plan on using a divided plenum for reasons stated earlier.

kesteb wrote:
The SDS site says the plenum should be a least 1/2" past the end runner. There is 19" to the outside of those runners. So the plenum needs to be at a minimum 21" long. That places the ends, very close to the firewall and radiator hoses and fan. So TB mounting now becomes an issue.


I was not planning on using straight runners on cylinders 1, 3, 4 or 6. Those runners will curve or angle towards the center of their respective plenum. Throttle bodies go on top for clearance.

kesteb wrote:
Next is the runner length. The SDS site recommends 9". OK. If you are using Doug's castings, like I am, you need a minimum of 7" to clear the tail pipe flanges. If you go any longer then 9" you will start to run into the shock tower, master cylinder and battery tray and only one of them is easily moved. You also have to have room to bolt the damn thing on. God knows what a chore that can be. So 9" is the longest particle straight length that you can use.


My '67 appears to allow longer runner lengths. As I pointed out power brakes (which I don't even have) would be out. Everything else looks fine.

kesteb wrote:
If you really want to go longer, you need to but a bend into the tube. Unless you have a mandrel tube bender, you have just tripled the cost of your runners. Summit and the local Napa store would be more then happy to sell you J-pipes for $12 a pop. For comparison, a single 10' length of straight 1 1/2" pipe is $20.

So you really want that mythical 14" runner, just like the Hyper-Pak. Well here is something to think about. On a '65 Dart there is 9" between the upper role of manifold bolts and the hood. Sounds like a lot, but its not. To get to that 14" you need to do a 180* bend. The radius of the above mentioned J-pipe is 3". The puts the top of the pipe at around 4" above the top bolt. The top of the plenum would then be about 1 1/2" higher for 5 1/2" height. The base of the Ford TB is 4 1/2". So add another 1 1/8" for a total of 6 5/8". Depending on how you mount the TB, you may need to add 1 1/2" to 2" for IAC clearance, throttle linkage clearance, PCV hose clearance. So, allowing for engine movement, there goes that 9" of clearance.


Be very careful saying what can't be done. Mythical the Hyper-Pak is not. I'm not going to use J-tubes because I'm not going to give up the extra torque of a tapered runner. I can fit my design under the hood of my car.

kesteb wrote:
So for under $200, a typical DIY should be able to build an intake manifold. There is a lot of theory, speculation and "gee I should do this because the Vizard book says so", but there are certain practical limitations on what will really fit in our cars. So keep that in mind when talking about intake manifolds.


Yes there is theory, next to no speculation, and it will fit under my hood. Until my manifold exists I don't think there is much more to say.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:07 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
Ultimate EFI intake? Not professional, nor aluminum, but its will work. How good is anyones guess. Runners are equal length 1 1/2 X 14.3 utilizing the 3rd sonic wave of a 240 degrees stock 6 cam. The plenum volume is 225 CID (not planned but I can alter it with a spacer) and the injectors are going to be mounted 45 degrees off the flanges. Contrary to a few postings, the end runners usually get the most air as the air is like a fluid. It hits the wall and sort of stalls there, but being a dry intake, the air can take corners much better than a wet intake whos fuel drops out of suspension around tight turns. This "U turn" design is common to many intakes, ie 5.0, Mitsubishi and Hyundai.The "stacks" will be 1/8 radiused with a high temp 2 part epoxy putty around the top rim so as to assist in the air entry, and the 2 part epoxy will be rolled into a fillet and smoothed over the tube welds to ensure no vacuum leaks as well as hide the crappy flux welds of mine. Trying to funnel these runner ends or make velocity stacks was originally planned but the material was not available in the OD of the runners, 1 1/2 EMT. Cheap and plentiful, but it is galvanized on the outside so if you weld on it, grind the surface shiny and remove the electro-coated galvanization. The TB will come off a 90 toward the valve cover and then toward the radiator so the TB will face forward. This makes the rear pull Windstar TB in the correct orientation and makes the air cleaner ram tube/turbo plumbing that much easier. It weighs a ton but I cant weld AL so this is it. I was considering using PVC off an AL flange with high temp hose connectors but reconsidered when the un-intercooled turbocharger outlet temperature was factored in.
I got about $40 in parts not including the cast AL Edelbrock V8 valve cover Im using as a plenum! Its gonna look kinda strange but it was a perfect fit as I needed a bolt on cover so I could work on the runner ends. Stay tuned.....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:23 am
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Location: N. Ga.
Car Model: 64 Valiant
There was actually talk at the Slant banquet of an application specific EFI intake being cast for the Slant. It will incorporate the TB at the front facing forward with the plenum parallel to the head. As soon as its drawn up and pattern work completed, testing will begin to evaluate is performance before being put into production. This design has already been used and tested on many other inline engines with great success, so it should be interesting to see how the Slant reacts to one.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:15 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
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Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
One thing comes to mind with the end mounted TB. There is very little room! You will have to route the cold air intake plenum at a sharp 90 or youll have to route it over the radiator! There is a sheetmetal intake for the Supra that is shaped like a acute triangle with the TB coming in at a 45 at the top of the "funnel" off to he side so every port has a line of sight to the TB. That would kick the TB out to the side toward the driver headlamp bucket. Equal length runners triangulating to 2 locations straddling a TB would be another design. This keeps the TB centered on the port inlets. Cast it and the customers will come.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:39 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
creative uses for a cast valve cover, eh? Just need a 2.5 90 to go into the plenum. BOV will possible go where the breather hole is...EFI rail to follow across a welded runner link bar. 12" total width from head so 3" clearance from M/C...T/B will be a little higher to clear fuel rail.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:11 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:01 am
Posts: 39
Location: Australia
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have you got the motor running with this intake yet? how well did it end up working?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:11 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
Im waiting on China to send my microcontroller, I just got the board so I still have to assemble it. Using a prototype free-ems Jaguar 0.6 board.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:57 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Everett, WA
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Those things actually exist outside of the pages of a web site.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:59 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
kesteb wrote:
Those things actually exist outside of the pages of a web site.


Yes, yes they do. I have the bare board #05. Out of a beta run of 15 or so.

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