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Multiple oil drippage

 
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the mothership
2 BBL ''SuperSix''


Joined: 08 Sep 2016
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Post subject: Multiple oil drippage (Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:14 pm) Reply with quote

Hello wise ones - I'm experiencing various oil leaks, specifically from head gasket, valve cover and oil pump. I know the valve cover has been ongoing over the years, not enough to drive me crazy but now time to deal with it for reals. The head gasket might be more recent, and the oil pump definitely is a recent flow. It'll create a little puddle overnight, maybe 4" diameterish.

Some background: the Mothership has been under-maintained for a few years, I have no excuse but I feel bad about it, so that's something, right? Recently the fuel pump barfed a tank of gas into the crankcase. I had it replaced and the oil replaced, and started getting serious about maintenance again. Did a valve adjust, new vacuum hoses, rebuilt the carb (ugh). I'm wondering if some of this leakage may be related to the fuel pump issue - ie: the gas had an adverse effect on the gaskets?

More importantly, what's your opinion(s) about my next steps - replace the oil pump seals and head gasket? New oil pump? Is a head gasket replacement advised, or just re-torque the head? If I do decide to attack the head, what other things should I do whilst in there?

I realize this is a long post, my apologies. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Cheers


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the mothership
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Post subject: (Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:27 pm) Reply with quote

Whoops, meant to ask about the valve cover - I assume the cover is warped somewhat, is there a way to A) flatten it, or B) double up gaskets to account for warpy woo?

Thanks


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'67 Dart 270
Turbo EFI


Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 1514
Location: SF Bay Area

Post subject: valve cover (Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:13 pm) Reply with quote

If you have a tin cover, then you can straighten a warped sealing surface on a flat surface with gentle taps with a small hammer, particularly around the bolt holes, they get cupped from overtightening.

If you have a cast aluminum valve cover, you can double up on gaskets, e.g., I took two of the silicone realgaskets and glued them together with RTV silicone and glued that to the valve cover with RTV. Never need another gasket again, it seals to the head nicely and is permanently stuck to the valve cover. My offy valve cover was pretty badly warped, but this system has been serving me for a few years now, no problem.

Realgaskets (http://www.realgaskets.com/files/automobile.htm#chrysler ) part number is MVC-3. They now list a fiberglass reinforced version, MVC-3FR, for more money. I don't know if the fiberglass reinforced one is thicker (the MVC-3 is 1/8" thick, so two together made 1/4" thick gasket (my cover was pretty warped)). If you glue your gasket to the cover, then you don't need a reinforced (rigid) gasket, because the valve cover holds the shape for it.

brian
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'67 Dart 270
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Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 1514
Location: SF Bay Area

Post subject: data (Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:53 pm) Reply with quote

The MVC-3FR is 1/8" thick, has a fiberglass rigid core and has a textured "non-slip" surface (I think that's simply an artifact of their hot pressing fabrication). Here is a picture:

http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart/media/MVC-3FR%20d_zpsugtjoanh.jpg.html?filters[user]=137665606&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1
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the mothership
2 BBL ''SuperSix''


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Post subject: (Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:13 pm) Reply with quote

Thanks for the valve cover suggestions - I have a tin cover, or possibly aluminum foil. Maybe wet paper towel.... anyhoo, I'll start whacking on it. It's likely overtorqued on the bolt holes. Do you know if there are torque specs for those things, other than my "meh, seems tight" tolerance?

Any thoughts on the other leaks?


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SlantSixDan
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Joined: 31 Oct 2002
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Post subject: Re: Multiple oil drippage (Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:44 pm) Reply with quote

the mothership wrote:
Hello wise ones - I'm experiencing various oil leaks, specifically from head gasket, valve cover and oil pump. I know the valve cover has been ongoing over the years, not enough to drive me crazy but now time to deal with it for reals. The head gasket might be more recent


What year engine is this?

Quote:
I'm wondering if some of this leakage may be related to the fuel pump issue - ie: the gas had an adverse effect on the gaskets?


If you really got a huge lot of gas into the crankcase, it might've pushed some weak gaskets over the edge, but these engines—like just about all engines designed back then—are not known for anything like perfect oil retention!

Quote:
More importantly, what's your opinion(s) about my next steps - replace the oil pump seals and head gasket?


Well, how sure are you (and how are you sure) it's the head gasket leaking? Where specifically are you getting oil that appears to be coming from the head gasket?

Quote:
Is a head gasket replacement advised, or just re-torque the head?


If it's an actual head gasket leak, it's going to be a head gasket replacement.

Quote:
If I do decide to attack the head, what other things should I do whilst in there?


Hold off on that question for now.

Other thoughts: If you have a stock original valve cover (stamped steel, what '67 called "tin") then yes, it could be warped. This warp, unless it is super extreme, can be fixed adequately with nothing more than a chunk of wood and a ball-peen hammer. As for valve cover gaskets: you probably won't ever catch me buying those "real"gasket items. A regular rubber Fel-Pro or other major brand valve cover gasket works well without creating new problems or costing excess money.

Also, a problem with your PCV (crankcase ventilation system) can cause or greatly worsen oil leaks. Are you sure your crankcase venting is appropriately configured and working right?



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the mothership
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Joined: 08 Sep 2016
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Post subject: (Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:14 pm) Reply with quote

Hiya Dan, here's my thoughts in response to your musings on my cogitations:

Year: 1967

How sure am I it's a head gasket leak: weeeellll, good question. I scrubbed the crud off the valve cover and top of the block, changed the valve cover gasket and ran around for a few miles. Let it sit a couple nights, then observed the result. There was some oil around the bolts to the valve cover, and on the flat portion of the block projecting past the head gasket (just a wee flat part). In thinking further, I'm realizing I probably need to fix this from the top down before panicking over a head gasket - ie: hammer on that tin cover and try to fix that first. ERGO, I'll save the fretting for later at which point I'll come begging again.

PCV Valve etc: I just replaced the vacuum lines and PCV valve, along with the carb rebuild I'm pursuing. One thing, which will likely win me the stink eye - I removed some lines and plugged a hole in the intake manifold, purely based on someone else's very clean sexy looking engine. Don't hit me. I don't even have a clear idea of what it was, but am fairly certain it wasn't working. It was a tube running from the #6(?) intake manifold (closest to firewall), to a valve assembly bolted to the manifold, to hell I forget.... Seriously, I still can't find what it was on the internet, even in the factory manual. I realize this is not a good reason to delete it but.... ha? SO, currently I have the PCV valve to carb, and carb to distributor lines, all new and shiny. Oil fill cap is a breather, and air cleaner is standard paper thing.

Thanks again for reading my blather, much appreciated - Jason


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Doctor Dodge
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Post subject: (Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:00 am) Reply with quote

Oil collecting along the head / block seam is likely from the spark plug tube seals.
Does you engine still have the spark plug tubes? ( the head could have been swapped to a later, non-tube head)
If your engine still runs the tubes, have you changed those seals?

Check to see if the tubes themselves in good condition.
( these tubes act as the gasket between the spark plug and the head surface, as well as the sealing along the outer head casting)
DD


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the mothership
2 BBL ''SuperSix''


Joined: 08 Sep 2016
Posts: 12

Post subject: (Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:03 am) Reply with quote

Hello Doctor - yes, just changed out those spark tube seals. Even got the fancy plug wires with the shield over the spark tube (I realize it doesn't seal anything, but sure looks as if I care!).


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SlantSixDan
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Post subject: (Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:31 am) Reply with quote

That valve you scrapped was probably one of these. It's generally best to ask and learn what things are before deciding their fate, eh!

If you changed the spark plug tube seals, then yeah, they're probably not causing the leak, but focus on getting the valve cover sealed up before worrying about the head gasket.

What (specific, exact) PCV valve did you install?



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the mothership
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Post subject: (Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:32 pm) Reply with quote

SlantSixDan wrote:
That valve you scrapped was probably one of these. It's generally best to ask and learn what things are before deciding their fate, eh!


Yes indeed that's it - thanks for the link. Do you recommend returning it to its original position (luckily I'm smart enough to throw it in a box, instead of the trash... or maybe I'm a hoarder)?

Quote:
If you changed the spark plug tube seals, then yeah, they're probably not causing the leak, but focus on getting the valve cover sealed up before worrying about the head gasket. What (specific, exact) PCV valve did you install?


Well turns out the valve cover isn't leaking, there was some residual oil on the bolt heads that had me fooled. I ran it for a few miles and sat it overnight, there was no drippage under the cover. SO..... might be digging into the head gasket soon. Ish.

Re: the PCV valve - it's an Echlin, from NAPA - this one: https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/CRB29209/CRB29209_0234456622

Thanks - Jason


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SlantSixDan
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Post subject: (Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:18 am) Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you recommend returning it to its original position


I like to pick up a little extra fuel economy when and where I can...!



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