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GTS225
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Post subject:
Bob D./Batch-fire Q's
(Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:28 pm)
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Bob...I made a bit of a mistake i building my fuel rail and wiring harness. I pulled apart the two harnesses I had in order to build one,ad neglected to find out which set fires first.
Both my harnesses have the same wire colors, brown, black, and blue, The brown is common to all injectors. What I need to know is which "set" fires first in the firing order, the black-wired set or blue-wired set? (Hopefully, you've figured this out while doing your conversion)
Roger
GTS225@aol.com
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Bob D
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Post subject:
Re: Bob D./Batch-fire Q's
(Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:13 am)
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| (User Above) wrote: |
: Bob...I made a bit of a mistake i building my
: fuel rail and wiring harness. I pulled apart
: the two harnesses I had in order to build
: one,ad neglected to find out which set fires
: first.
:
: Both my harnesses have the same wire colors,
: brown, black, and blue, The brown is common
: to all injectors. What I need to know is
: which "set" fires first in the
: firing order, the black-wired set or
: blue-wired set? (Hopefully, you've figured
: this out while doing your conversion)
: Roger
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Roger,
What I did was connect one group of wires to injectors 1, 2, & 3 and the other group to injectors 4, 5 & 6. I don't have my car with me and won't be home until Sunday night. So, I can't tell you which color went where. However, I don't think that it makes any difference.
Bob D
bbobbias@aol.com
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GTS225
Guest
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Post subject:
Re: Bob D./Batch-fire Q's
(Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:27 am)
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| (User Above) wrote: |
: Roger,
: What I did was connect one group of wires to
: injectors 1, 2, & 3 and the other group
: to injectors 4, 5 & 6. So, I can't tell you
: which color went where. However, I don't think
: that it makes any difference.
: Bob D
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*************************************************
Hmmmm....interesting. I'd have thought it would make a difference. Seem to me that it would have to be re-arranged to correspond with the slant's firing order, rather than the v-6's.
I think I'll try to hook it up so that 1-5-3 gets triggered first, then 6-2-4. Seems the fuel would spend less time in the valve pocket waiting for the valve to open that way.
Just my thought processes.
Roger
GTS225@aol.com
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Bob D
Guest
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Post subject:
Re: Bob D./Batch-fire Q's
(Fri Aug 16, 2002 11:07 am)
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| (User Above) wrote: |
:
: *************************************************
: Hmmmm....interesting. I'd have thought it would
: make a difference. Seem to me that it would
: have to be re-arranged to correspond with
: the slant's firing order, rather than the
: v-6's.
:
: I think I'll try to hook it up so that 1-5-3
: gets triggered first, then 6-2-4. Seems the
: fuel would spend less time in the valve
: pocket waiting for the valve to open that
: way.
: Just my thought processes.
: Roger
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Roger,
Perhaps I misunderstood your question. I did compensate for the difference in firing order between the V6 and the SL6. As I stated in the article "The firing order for the 3.8L V6 is 1-6-5-4-3-2 and the SL6 is 1-5-3-6-2-4. The batch fire ECM fires injectors 1, 3 & 5 together and injectors 2, 4 & 6 together on the 3.8L. With the SL6, I wired it to fire 1, 2 & 3 and 4,5 & 6 respectively. " " Use the OHM function on your DVM to determine which groups of three are together in the harness." What I was saying in my recent response was that I don't think it matters which group of three wires goes to which group of three injectors.
Bob D
bbobbias@aol.com
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GTS225
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Post subject:
Re: Bob D./Batch-fire Q's
(Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:06 pm)
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| (User Above) wrote: |
: What I was saying in my recent response was
: that I don't think it matters which group of
: three wires goes to which group of three
: injectors.
: Bob D
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**************************************************
Bob, I suggest you may be wrong, but not for the reasons you might think. I sat down and charted out the events going on in the engine at the (presumed) moment of injector firing, and it looks like Buick was trying to ensure the valves were either open on intake, or closed during power stroke at spray event.
Presuming that #1 (Buick) is time-injected from the ignition signal, then at injection event, cyl's 1&3 are intaking, and 5 is power-stroke, and vice-versa. Conversely, it works out that way for 2-4-6, also.
If one wires the injector harness so that 1,2&3 fire together, and 4,5,&6 fire together, with the blue wire going to 1,2,&3, then it works out similarly. 1&2 are filling, while 3 is making power, and 4&5 are filling while 6 is making power, and vice-versa.
In any case, I'll be hooking my harness up very similarly to yours.
Roger
GTS225@aol.com
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Doctor Dodge (Doug Dutra)
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Post subject:
Re: Batch fire, try different combos?
(Sun Aug 18, 2002 10:18 am)
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I have always been concerned about shooting fuel at the back of a closed intake valve.
Then again, if you think about how fast things are happening and the fact that "raw fuel" is always "piled-up" behind the intake valve on a wet manifold system, then it's easer to think that a few degrees difference on when the injector fires at the closed valve may not make much difference.
I would think this would be easy to check, just switch some injector wire and see if low speed operation is better.
DD
**************************************************
| (User Above) wrote: |
: Bob, I suggest you may be wrong, but not for
: the reasons you might think. I sat down and
: charted out the events going on in the
: engine at the (presumed) moment of injector
: firing, and it looks like Buick was trying
: to ensure the valves were either open on
: intake, or closed during power stroke at
: spray event.
:
: Presuming that #1 (Buick) is time-injected from
: the ignition signal, then at injection
: event, cyl's 1&3 are intaking, and 5 is
: power-stroke, and vice-versa. Conversely, it
: works out that way for 2-4-6, also.
:
: If one wires the injector harness so that 1,2&3
: fire together, and 4,5,&6 fire together,
: with the blue wire going to 1,2,&3, then it
: works out similarly. 1&2 are filling, while
: 3 is making power, and 4&5 are filling while
: 6 is making power, and vice-versa.
:
: In any case, I'll be hooking my harness up very
: similarly to yours.
:
: Roger
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Bob D
Guest
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Post subject:
Re: Bob D./Batch-fire Q's
(Sun Aug 18, 2002 7:25 pm)
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| (User Above) wrote: |
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: **************************************************
: Bob, I suggest you may be wrong, but not for
: the reasons you might think. I sat down and
: charted out the events going on in the
: engine at the (presumed) moment of injector
: firing, and it looks like Buick was trying
: to ensure the valves were either open on
: intake, or closed during power stroke at
: spray event.
:
: Presuming that #1 (Buick) is time-injected from
: the ignition signal, then at injection
: event, cyl's 1&3 are intaking, and 5 is
: power-stroke, and vice-versa. Conversely, it
: works out that way for 2-4-6, also.
:
: If one wires the injector harness so that 1,2&3
: fire together, and 4,5,&6 fire together,
: with the blue wire going to 1,2,&3, then it
: works out similarly. 1&2 are filling, while
: 3 is making power, and 4&5 are filling while
: 6 is making power, and vice-versa.
:
: In any case, I'll be hooking my harness up very
: similarly to yours.
: Roger
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Roger,
Keep in mind that the ECM in a batch fire set-up hasn't got a clue about valve events in terms of which valve is doing what at any given time. All it knows is what the engine RPM is. When you start the engine any cylinder might fire first. I suggest that each time you start the engine the injector timing could be different. Maybe you're seeing something here that I'm missing. Anyway let me know how you make out. As far as I know, other than myself, you're the only other to try this so far.
Bob D
BBobbias@aol.com
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