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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
MS II discussion
(Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:14 am)
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I went to the MS web site and looked up the MS II upgrade and found that you can buy the MS II daughter board for just $90, and the first statement is that this is a plug and play arrangement. . But there are still a few questions I have that seem unclear from my readings there. I know I am not that smart, but one of you brilliant and very patient guys will help me out here I am sure.
1. It seems as if this is a plug and play thing until you read a bit and find out that you must put in some jumper wires on the mother board for various reasons. This scares me. I fear I will take a working thing and make it crash. This is not an unreasonable fear. This is not my strength.
2. If you use the same relay box, and mother board, where do the connections for controlling timing and the IAC stepper motor come from. Are there unused taps on the relay board that become live with the addition of the new daughter board?
3. YOU can buy an entire assembled MS II box for $400. But I don't know if this includes a new relay box or not. I guess I can wait until Monday and get in communication with the seller and find out. Anybody know the answer to this?
4. Anybody out there done this already? Have you upgraded from MS I to MS II? What advice can you offer here.
5. And they talk about down loading files to get the thing working. This also seems like something I will not know how to do. I use a computer at work, but our IT person makes sure I don't have to do anything but type at the keyboard.
I am going out to the garage to turn a few wrenches. That I understand.  Then I will come back in and read the MS II documentation a little more. I guess I do know more now than I did 4 years ago, but it seems like it is not easy for this old brain to pick up new ideas. I need a 12 year old kid to help me with this.
Sam_________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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GunPilot
SL6 Racer & Moderator
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 435
Location: Casa Grande, AZ
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Post subject:
(Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:55 am)
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Sam, I upgraded a V2.2 board from MSI to MSII. Not hard, had to run some jumper wires as you mentioned. I'm sitting at work right now so I can't hold it in my hand, but I'll say it's not difficult to do. I am assuming you have a V2.2 board witht he MSI. The V3 board is plug and play.
However, I don't plan to do timing with it, so I didn't pay much attention to that piece of it but I do remember that's laid out in the MS site. I don't believe you will have to change out the relay box.
I guess I'm not much help, other than to say don't let it intimidate you. MS, if nothing else, is workable and fixable. It wants to work.
-George_________________ It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.
1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...
Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!
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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
(Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:03 pm)
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That's encouraging. Did you have to download any add on software to get it to work? I do have a very capable daughter who could help me with that part.
I think maybe I should wait until the prime cruise weather is over though. Thanks George.
Sam_________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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GunPilot
SL6 Racer & Moderator
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 435
Location: Casa Grande, AZ
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Post subject:
(Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:53 pm)
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What I had to update was the firmware in the MSII itself. I had a very old version because I bought one of the first ones that came out, and Megatune was unhappy. It wouldn't run on the stim. So I updated the firmware in the MSII and all was well. If you buy one now you'll likely get the latest version so no worries.
I've been siphoning gas out of the Duster so I am not remembering so well but go here: http://www.megamanual.com/index.html and go to the MSII menu. Look at the "Embedded code" menu selection. That's what I had to do. Looks worse that it is.
Hope this helps.
-G_________________ It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.
1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...
Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!
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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
(Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:12 am)
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I'm such an "old poop" that I don't know what "firm ware" is. But, thanks for the link.
Good luck at Kearny. I went to Haggerstown just two weeks after getting my car running right.And, like you, I was putting new wheels on just a week before. It felt pretty rushed. I was just glad it made it down the track without something failing. Well, actually a turbo hose did come off,but that was easy to put back on and tighten._________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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GunPilot
SL6 Racer & Moderator
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 435
Location: Casa Grande, AZ
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Post subject:
(Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:50 am)
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Well, there's software (the program) hardware (the chips and diodes and parts), and firmware, which is software that resides in the hardware. It's called 'firm' because it does not go away when you turn it off. Like the BIOS in your computer.
In our example, Megatune is software, the MS box is the hardware, and residing in a flash chip in the MS is the firmware.
Oh, by the way, you and I are 'warmware' and we make the majority of the errors. To a programmer anyway.
At any rate, the firmware holds the settings and the programming for the MSII, and the version needed to be updated._________________ It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.
1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...
Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!
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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
(Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:05 pm)
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Thanks, I think I get it.
Sam_________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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Matt Cramer
Board Sponsor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 1516
Location: Oxford, Georgia
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Post subject:
Re: MS II discussion
(Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:35 pm)
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| Sam Powell wrote: |
1. It seems as if this is a plug and play thing until you read a bit and find out that you must put in some jumper wires on the mother board for various reasons. This scares me. I fear I will take a working thing and make it crash. This is not an unreasonable fear. This is not my strength. |
Yes, if you are adding new features they do need a couple new circuits.
| Quote: | | 2. If you use the same relay box, and mother board, where do the connections for controlling timing and the IAC stepper motor come from. Are there unused taps on the relay board that become live with the addition of the new daughter board? |
Correct. Once the jumpers from (1) are added, S1 through S5 become live. S1 through S4 are IAC output and S5 is the ignition output, if the board is built the standard way.
| Quote: | | 3. YOU can buy an entire assembled MS II box for $400. But I don't know if this includes a new relay box or not. I guess I can wait until Monday and get in communication with the seller and find out. Anybody know the answer to this? |
That is just the ECU; the relay board is sold separately.
| Quote: | | 4. Anybody out there done this already? Have you upgraded from MS I to MS II? What advice can you offer here. |
I've used all of them...
| Quote: | 5. And they talk about down loading files to get the thing working. This also seems like something I will not know how to do. I use a computer at work, but our IT person makes sure I don't have to do anything but type at the keyboard.
I am going out to the garage to turn a few wrenches. That I understand. Then I will come back in and read the MS II documentation a little more. I guess I do know more now than I did 4 years ago, but it seems like it is not easy for this old brain to pick up new ideas. I need a 12 year old kid to help me with this.
Sam |
You might want to try the new TunerStudio program; it's a lot more user friendly than MegaTune and can set up a lot of the features on its own. |
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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
(Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:54 pm)
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Thanks MAtt. Will my present relay board work with a new MS II ECU?
Sam_________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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Matt Cramer
Board Sponsor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 1516
Location: Oxford, Georgia
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Post subject:
(Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:54 am)
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Yes, there have only been a few minor variations in relay board design.
Some early relay board cables don't have pin 36 installed. You might want to check that. |
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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
(Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:49 am)
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Thanks Matt. What should I look for there? Is the pin present with no wire hooked up, or is the pin gone entirely?
Sam_________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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Matt Cramer
Board Sponsor
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Posts: 1516
Location: Oxford, Georgia
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Post subject:
(Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:16 pm)
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| Crimp style ones would have the pin gone entirely. |
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GunPilot
SL6 Racer & Moderator
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 435
Location: Casa Grande, AZ
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Post subject:
(Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:29 pm)
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Sam, here's a pic of the underside of my v2.2 board with the required jumpers to go to MSII installed. Note the red wire, and above that is a bare jumper.
Also, I've updated the firmware several times in the last two days trying to fix my fuel pump issue (that wasn't it) so I'm refreshed on that (plus the gas fumes have cleared)._________________ It's a Slant thing. Even I don't understand.
1974 Duster, EFI /6 soon to be turbo...
Get that Monkay! Get that nasty thing!!
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Sam Powell
Supercharged
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 3171
Location: Gaithersburg MD
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Post subject:
(Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:40 am)
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Thanks much. That is a big help. I will print that photo, and study the diagrams and maybe lose some of the intimidation I have felt. This is kind of a Winter project, I think. Maye I will jump into it sooner.
Sam_________________ A REAL professional is someone who knows when to hit it with a bigger hammer.
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