Direct Injected Slant??

pishta · TBI Slant 6 Joined: 02 Feb 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Telco

Wow, 150 BAR? How many amps would a fuel pump take (or HP for a mechanical pump) to make 2175 psi? Does gasoline self ignite under extreme pressure like Diesel? I think MAN makes the DI injectors for the Duramax motor and my friends chevy cracked one. It flooded and hydrolocked the motor and bent a connecting rod, all under warranty...twice! Boy, did they get tired of seeing him get towed in....

I like the Ford MAF system too, self adjusting. But how much is that bolt and play EFI in a holley carb body that is in the magazines?

WagonsRcool · Post subject: (Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:13 pm)

It takes quite a bit of HP to run a gas DI fuel pump- usually driven off the cam. 2200 psi is close to the limit for gas, you go too high & bad things can happen (in the injector - boom!) . Since the engine compression ratio is lower than on a diesel, they still use a spark ignition system.

On diesel eng compression is much higher (400-450 psi vs 150-200 gas) as is injector pressure ( up to 30,000 psi ! )

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63 Valiant Wagon
225 - 4 bbl

Evilsizer · Post subject: (Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:09 pm)

reed,
someone has done DI on a slant back in 06.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0602_chrysler_slant_six_engine/tuning.html

page 5
"So was EFI worth all the work? Did the direct port injection make up for a rather poor intake manifold design? Check out the graph (Diagram 1), and decide for yourself. In this application, the poor design of the Slant Six's intake was overcome by placing the fuel supply directly in front of each intake port."

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0602_chrysler_slant_six_engine/photo_22.html
"when we finished pulling the little Slant Six to its full rpm, we did get more horsepower with the EFI setup-quite a bit actually. How does 320 at 6,000 rpm sound? Even torque was up to 303 lb-ft at 5,000 rpm."

i know i need to check here more often. it does look like you got things going on doing FI, thought i would just post that info up.

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1976 Plymouth Feather Duster
2002 Dodge Dakota 4.7l v8

olafla · Post subject: (Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:12 pm)

Evilziser, I hope you don't find me to be disrespectful of your interest in the matter, but what you refer to is FI, not DI. Direct injection is usually the name used to describe injection directly into the combustion chamber, not via the intake channels as shown in the articles you refer to, see the link Gasoline_direct_injection.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

pishta · TBI Slant 6 Joined: 02 Feb 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Telco

Yes, ditto on the last post. DI is in the absence of a valve between the injector and the combustion chamber. MPFI is more like what they were describing. "poor manifold design" can be worked out with a dry intake and individual injectors right behind the intake valves. TBI and FAST injection systems are wet manifold designs, not ideal in any case.

Evilsizer · Post subject: (Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:32 pm)

it is all good guys, i dont know that much if anything about FI or DFI for that matter. i just recalled reading it a while back not long after i joined here and they said it was direct injection or i miss read what the meant by it. it is all worth looking into for FI but which on i guess depends on how deep your pockets go. i would like to do FI some day, cant right now or anytime soon so i keep reading here.

_________________
1976 Plymouth Feather Duster
2002 Dodge Dakota 4.7l v8

olafla · Post subject: (Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:05 pm)

pishta · TBI Slant 6 Joined: 02 Feb 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Telco

Best I heard for a retrofit is off a Ford 6 truck. The EEC4 engine controller self adjusts to the motor and cam, unlike PROM based controllers like chevy or Mopar. Grab the throttle body, the injectors, computer and the harness as well as some obvious sensors the harness is still attached to (MAP, AIT, and coolant temp sensor) and the electronic inline fuel pump mounted on the frame rail. Mount your throttle body on a big 90, Get you intake bungs and your injector rail blank drilled, fuel return line plumbed and hook 'er up. ONce you get it running, modify your intake by closing up the original 1-2 bbl port and chopping off the side of the intake so you can mount the throttle body on the same plane as the runners. you can probably run those headers now as the intake does not need to be heated anymore as it is a dry intake and fuel atomization/condensation is no longer an issue. That is in my future if I get that motivates. Look for the 1/2 price days at the pull a part yards around the holiday weekends or get the whole kit 'n' kaboodle off Ebay and save yourself a nasty day at the yard.

olafla · Post subject: (Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:34 pm)

Remember to bring your camera, pishta! We need pics!

Olaf

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Aspenized

pishta · TBI Slant 6 Joined: 02 Feb 2011 Posts: 149 Location: Telco

Dont hold your breath. Lots of projects to finish prior to that one. I do take lots of pics though, will do.

The Moffittman · Post subject: (Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:47 pm)

Is the MAF system any different than Bosch L jet? Or LH Jet with the hotwire? I've worked on a lot of Awful Romeos and Fiats, and BMWs... All of which used this system from the early eighties to the early nineties.. In progressively modified versions of course, but the L-Jet got 90 percent of it's information from the airbox... The reason I bring this up, is because it seems to be an even simper system partswise. The distributor was controlled by the ECU, a lot of them even still had points in them.. You'd have to mount a crank angle sensor, but that's most EFI. However, the main reason I bring this up, is because it was used on one of the most prolific setups worldwide at the time... the Bimmer straight 6... Having worked with mainly Alfas, (Same system) I can say that there's only one fuel pump, two temp sensors, Crank angle, airbox sensor, Throttle positioning sensor, fuel rail, cold start injector... the fuel return in the rail is even vacuum operated.. Seems basic, however the ECU might be too basic to hack. Is that plausible? or am I way off the mark in my understanding of the MAF system?

Matt

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63 Valiant 225... ($500!) Wife's Hot Rod
73 Fury II, (Free!) Big Blue Meanie on a rust diet
86 Dodge W-150.. Anemic, but Determined..
73 Volvo 144 w/ 4spd (Also Free!)
81 Volvo 245 4spd w/OD ($600!)
00 Subie Wagon, Wife's Commuter Coffin

The Moffittman · Post subject: (Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:23 pm)

I may have just stuck my foot in my mouth... I've read further into different posts.. I didn't realize the Ford system already had that much aftermarket support, and was as practical as it seems... Has anybody started to do this on a slant yet? Anybody live within 100 miles of me and want help trying?

_________________
63 Valiant 225... ($500!) Wife's Hot Rod
73 Fury II, (Free!) Big Blue Meanie on a rust diet
86 Dodge W-150.. Anemic, but Determined..
73 Volvo 144 w/ 4spd (Also Free!)
81 Volvo 245 4spd w/OD ($600!)
00 Subie Wagon, Wife's Commuter Coffin

Reed · Post subject: (Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:04 pm)

I have been planing out a Ford MAF based system on paper for about two years. I am in the very beginning stages of being ready to actually start fabricating. I don't live within 100 moles of you. The only real stumbling block remaining for me to overcome is how to mount the Ford distributor sensor inside a slant six distributor, but I think it can be done. I just need the time and money to do it.

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The Moffittman · Post subject: (Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:44 pm)

Reed,

Without having a ford unit in hand, and only looking at a grease smeared ebay picture, is it maybe possible to gut the distributor, cut the housing short, cut the shaft to the appropriate length, and then find an appropriate bearing to use in the bottom, drill the shaft for a roll pin, reassemble everything and mount our helical gear on the bottom? I ask this not knowing what the shaft diameter for either unit is, however, I recently found out that at the back of my local hardware store in the industrial section that I can special order any size bearing I want out of a book that's three times the size of a large print dictionary. Does anybody know of a dist. that would fit a slant that's easier to modify?

_________________
63 Valiant 225... ($500!) Wife's Hot Rod
73 Fury II, (Free!) Big Blue Meanie on a rust diet
86 Dodge W-150.. Anemic, but Determined..
73 Volvo 144 w/ 4spd (Also Free!)
81 Volvo 245 4spd w/OD ($600!)
00 Subie Wagon, Wife's Commuter Coffin

Reed · Post subject: (Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:37 pm)

I know people have gone the cutting and welding route to put a Ford distributor head on the slant six shaft, but i am trying to use a slant six lean burn distributor and find a way to mount the Ford sensor in it. I know it will physically fit, I just need to spend the time to come up with a permanent mounting method that will keep the sensor functional.

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Buy local! http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/ http://www.americansworking.com/tools.html

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