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Holley 1945 problem? '83 Dodge Ram D150 pickup
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kimcadmus
1 BBL (New)


Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas, TX

Post subject: Holley 1945 problem? '83 Dodge Ram D150 pickup (Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:45 am) Reply with quote

I'm having acceleration/fuel supply problem and really could use some advice.

I rebuilt my carb in May with the help of this forum using a walker kit and replaced the plastic float with a brass one. The truck ran great for several months-like new really.

In august while on the highway suddenly I had no power/acceleration, the truck was still running but wouldn't accelerate. I limped off the highway-accelerator to the floor and it only periodically would have a burst of acceleration. Couldn't find anything visibly wrong under the hood accept that the throttle/transmission linkage had come loose. Rigged it back together with a paperclip but still had the problem. Truck would idle but had intermittent acceleration. Made it to the destination, let the truck rest for 30min. When it started back up it was fine. Made it home with no problems.

I took it into my local shop as i did not have time or really the knowledge to diagnose the problem. They could not get the problem to manifest again. They replaced the distributor cap and rotor as they were very corroded. I went on my way and next time I drove it same problem. The shop adjusted the carburetor and again could not find an issue. It is a sporadic problem apparently.

They have had the truck on and off for months and have decided that the carb just needs to be replaced ($405 for part). At this point after being at their shop they can get it started but can't get it to run enough to get it to my garage and off their lot.

Options:

Dad says it might be electronic module (idiot box?)$30
Uncle says choke solenoid sticking $20
Father in-law says rebuild carb again for only $20
Shop says replace carb but part is $405 plus labor

Truck only cost me $800 and is all original and I love it except that it is useless right now and I need it!

Thanks for any and all advice and sorry for the long post.


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Aggressive Ted
Supercharged


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 3706
Location: Black Diamond, WA

Post subject: (Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:32 pm) Reply with quote

Your truck may have been modified and it may or may not have the lean burn computer system......some folks will install a points distributor or MOPAR's electronic ignition.

I would check into a few different things.......just replacing things doesn't necessarily mean the problem will be fixed. I would check voltage to the coil
if you have points, replace then and especially the condenser, (when they fail they will be intermittent) if electronic, replace the resistor, but I would check voltages at each point like both sides of the resistor. I would also check fuel flow. You might have some blockage. Enough fuel to start and idle but not enough for cruise. With the engine off, looking down the throat, does the accelerator pump put out a healthy squirt?

Not sure about your truck history but since this is a recent purchase, if the truck had been sitting long there could be water in the tanks and when low on gas making it to the float bowl and just barely covering the main jet or rolling around and stopping the fuel flow. I have had that happen on my 1945 several times. My car has sit parked under a tree for several years and the tank had a fair amount of water in it. From full to a quarter tank it was fine, if I went lower than that it would suck up some nasty stuff and plug the carb.

Pop the top and shine a light in the float bowl and see if there is any water in there. If so, poor it out or blot it up with a blue mechanic paper towel. I would also consider draining your tank....so it doesn't happen again.

Sometimes condensation can be pretty hard on the fuel system. I would be tempted to run a little gas dryer. Boats are notorious for this problem and when the rock back and forth suffer from the same problem. That is why we always install a fuel water separator. Some folks don't....Just about all diesels do.....I put one on my car. No more problems. Click on the red link below my name to view pictures of the fuel water separator. It makes a great filter....down to 2 microns.

$400 for another carb is way too much.....the one you see in the pictures of my car was $40. I switched to a 1920 per Doc's suggestions, rebuilt it and it runs superb! Doc was right on! Now I can spin both tires in a heart beat.

Don't be over whelmed, just check one thing at a time and check it off the list. Smile



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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live.com/self.aspx/74%20Dodge%20Dart%20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 exhaust, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG
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hantayo13
Turbo EFI


Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 1907

Post subject: (Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:49 pm) Reply with quote

some time in mid 80s the leanbrn got moved from the aircleaner to behind battery in the fender


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skurdnin
3 Deuce Webber


Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 51

Post subject: (Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:40 pm) Reply with quote

I was having intermittent acceleration issues in an 81 Lebaron, similar to what you're experiencing, where I would put it to the floor and it wouldn't go anywhere, and then sometimes get power. I don't have lean burn, but the biggest thing that helped me was replacing all the fuel lines under the hood. They weren't leaking gas, but they were dry rotted and were sucking air pretty bad.


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Reed
Supercharged


Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 9807
Location: Fircrest, WA

Post subject: (Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:02 pm) Reply with quote

skurdnin wrote:
I was having intermittent acceleration issues in an 81 Lebaron, similar to what you're experiencing, where I would put it to the floor and it wouldn't go anywhere, and then sometimes get power. I don't have lean burn, but the biggest thing that helped me was replacing all the fuel lines under the hood. They weren't leaking gas, but they were dry rotted and were sucking air pretty bad.


Fuel lines operate under pressure and will leak gas if they rupture. It is impossible for a fuel line to "suck air." Are you talking about vacuum hoses?



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kimcadmus
1 BBL (New)


Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas, TX

Post subject: (Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:42 pm) Reply with quote

@Ted - thanks for the the list of things to check - I really appreciate it - you were great in helping me with my carb back in June. I will get the truck towed to my place and will report back.

I will also check my vacuum hoses as they have been on a list of things to do as I noticed they were very dry.

Thanks everyone - I will let you know how it goes.

Wish me luck!


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skurdnin
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Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 51

Post subject: (Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:29 pm) Reply with quote

Reed wrote:
skurdnin wrote:
I was having intermittent acceleration issues in an 81 Lebaron, similar to what you're experiencing, where I would put it to the floor and it wouldn't go anywhere, and then sometimes get power. I don't have lean burn, but the biggest thing that helped me was replacing all the fuel lines under the hood. They weren't leaking gas, but they were dry rotted and were sucking air pretty bad.


Fuel lines operate under pressure and will leak gas if they rupture. It is impossible for a fuel line to "suck air." Are you talking about vacuum hoses?


The rubber fuel line going from the metal line to the filter/vapor seperator and the line from the seperator to the fuel pump were cracked and weren't dripping gas, but they were moist on the outside. I never saw any gas drip or any spots on the driveway. The tank didn't go down extremely fast as it would in an actual leak, but the lines were definitely rotted. I suppose they were as close to rupturing as you could get without them actually pouring gas out of them, and upon my first visual inspection they didn't look all that bad. Replacing all the rubber fuel lines immediately helped most of my acceleration issues.


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newport77
3 Deuce Webber


Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 94

Post subject: (Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:23 pm) Reply with quote

I am almost certain I know what this is.
I am not sure how much the Holley 1945 changed between 1975 and 1983, but I can tell you that I used to run into this exact situation on a 75 Dart with a 225 and a Holley 1945. After a long run on the highway, all of the heat would come up from the exhaust manifold, through the intake manifold, and heat up the carburetor.
This would cause the power piston to stick in the "lean" position in the carburetor because the carburetor would warp ever so slightly when it was hot.
I would have next to NO acceleration at all until I let the car cool off for at least an hour. The only thing I could do was try to shield the carburetor from the heat coming from the exhaust manifold below.

What I tried to do was to put a heat shield on top of the intake manifold, which came on slant 6s for passenger cars in 1980 and 1981 (Like LeBarons and Miradas, etc.)

This helped quite a lot.

I always felt, though, that the jets in the Holley 1945 were simply too lean for good driveability.

I later switched to a Carter BBD/Super Six setup, and I was much happier with the car's performance after that.

What might be easier is to try to get a hold of a good Holley 1920 carburetor instead (from a 1973 and previous slant 6). I think that carburetor was an all around better carb for the 225, plus you could keep the same intake manifold.

So try the heat shield first. If that doesn't help, try a Holley 1920.
At this point, emissions testing shouldn't be much of an issue for your truck (which I think is the reason they went away from the 1920 and over to the 1945).

OH YES make sure the heat riser is not stuck in the "full hot" position. In my case mine was still functioning but the carburetor still got too hot for good driveability after a long highway run.


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newport77
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 94

Post subject: (Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:30 pm) Reply with quote

OK, I just re-read your post and it is this part that makes me question what is going on:

"At this point after being at their shop they can get it started but can't get it to run enough to get it to my garage and off their lot. "

OK. Here is what I think.
Replace the needle and seat assembly.
On the same Dart I as talking about, water got into the gas tank after sitting for so many years, and the bottom of the tank rusted. The rust was very fine particulate stuff almost like dust.

Well, it made it up the fuel line, made it through the fuel filter, and clogged the needle and seat! Fuel could not get into the carburetor, and eventually the car would just stall driving down the road. I could restart it, it would idle, but I could not get the car to move more than about 5 mph!

The only way I figured it out was when I rebuilt the carburetor, the entire inside of the carburetor was full of red grit!

I had to replace the fuel filter and the needle and seat (which comes as an asseembly) at least 3 times before this fine particulate rust stopped coming up the fuel system from the gas tank.

Check this out and see if that's what is going on before spending $405 on a new carburetor!


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newport77
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Joined: 16 May 2007
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Post subject: (Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:33 pm) Reply with quote

The needle and seat will come in a rebuild kit ($25) and a new fuel filter will probably cost you $5 at the auto parts store.


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nichocli
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Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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Location: kansas, usa

Post subject: (Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:50 am) Reply with quote

My '80 d150 did that same thing to me yesterday. I found the accelerator pump was sticking in the bore. the plastic shaft at the top had swollen and was sticking. I did a complete overhaul on the carburetor which it needed. I had to turn the pump shaft down a little bit to make it work. I was unable to get a replacement shaft locally and I needed to get home. I contribute the problem to running E10 fuel. it has a 1945 holley

I don't know if you have the same problem but it might be worth a look.



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kimcadmus
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Joined: 14 May 2010
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Location: Dallas, TX

Post subject: Found the problem/s? (Wed May 25, 2011 10:15 am) Reply with quote

Well I pulled the carb off and found two problems:

1. Lots of very small black 1mm grit/debris that looked like carbon.
I had replaced many of the vacuum hoses last week which were deteriorating.
I also went ahead and replaced the fuel filter and lines (though it appeared clean and unclogged)

2. Accelerator pump is sticking in bore. (just like nichocli suggested)
The plastic shaft appears to be warped and so doesn't travel through the assembly straight and binds in the bore.

So I looked in the Walker catalog and found the part #64-379 and ordered it but soon received a call from them saying the don't make it anymore!

Am I looking at a new carb since I can't seem to find this one part?!
I found one here http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=106&partnum=C7386


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SlantSixDan
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Joined: 31 Oct 2002
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Location: North America

Post subject: Re: Found the problem/s? (Wed May 25, 2011 10:23 am) Reply with quote

kimcadmus wrote:
1. Lots of very small black 1mm grit/debris that looked like carbon.


It's coming from your charcoal can at the right front corner of the engine bay. Time to replace it with a new one; part numbers here. In the meantime, disconnect the hose that runs from the top front of the carb to the charcoal can (connected to the "CARB" or "BOWL" port on the can) and just leave the carb fitting open to the air until you can replace the can.

Quote:
So I looked in the Walker catalog and found the part #64-379 and ordered it but soon received a call from them saying the don't make it anymore!


A lot of the repair parts for carburetors are going obsolete from all makers. You may want to check with www.thecarburetorshop.com and see if they can supply the item you need. Give them the Walker part number and item name.

Quote:
Am I looking at a new carb since I can't seem to find this one part?!
I found one here


No, you didn't -- that's a "remanufactured" carburetor. They are junk!

See if you can find the repair part you need, either new or good used. If not, I have a new (not "remanufactured") carb for your application; send me a PM if you want to buy it.

FTR, the 1920 is not a better carb design than the 1945. The opposite is true; the 1920 has several serious design deficiencies because the primary design goals for it were cheap, cheap, and cheap. The 1945 has several concrete design advantages over the 1920, but the first couple years of 1945s were buggy and most 1945s came from the factory jetted very lean for emissions compliance -- not hard to fix. Fact is, both carbs (or a BBS, or a BBD, or any other original-equipment slant-6 carb) can be made to work well if they are in fundamentally sound condition to start with. That is growing to be a bigger and bigger 'if' as these carbs accumulate decades' worth of use (and abuse at the hands of "remanufacturers").



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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Wed May 25, 2011 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kimcadmus
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Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas, TX

Post subject: (Wed May 25, 2011 1:06 pm) Reply with quote

Thanks Dan!

I found the accelerator pump at a small local shop just outside of Dallas - Mister Carburetor, for only $15. Super nice little shop that has been around for 30+ years.

I will unhook the vapor canister until I can get a new one. Could you repost the link as it was broken above?


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SlantSixDan
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Post subject: (Wed May 25, 2011 1:12 pm) Reply with quote

Oops, sorry -- try it now.



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