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sandy in BC
Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 4644
Location: Burton BC canada
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Post subject:
(Thu May 03, 2012 5:59 pm)
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| Nope....its a 4 speed with OD 3rd gear |
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SlantSixDan
Board Sponsor & Contributor
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 21888
Location: North America
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Post subject:
(Thu May 03, 2012 6:42 pm)
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Nope…it's a 5-speed with overdrive Reverse._________________ 一期一会
By birth & parentage: US citizen, 2nd class
By choice: Canadian citizen, 1st class
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65 Dartman
Turbo EFI
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1055
Location: Strasburg, VA
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Post subject:
(Sat May 26, 2012 5:23 pm)
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| So it seems that with the 65 non-OD 833 a 3.23 or maybe a 2.94 rear end would be fine. If I ended up using the 833OD, the rear end ratio ought to be stepped up to at least a 3.55 or preferably 3.91 or 4.10 for all around in town and highway driving. Do I have this correct?
_________________
65 Dart GT convertible
65 Dart station wagon
65 Barracuda
87 D100 Short Bed
Retired USAF 1966-1986
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DusterIdiot
Board Sponsor
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: Salem, OR
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Post subject:
On the money...
(Sat May 26, 2012 6:26 pm)
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| Quote: | | Do I have this correct? |
Yes...
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sandy in BC
Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 4644
Location: Burton BC canada
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Post subject:
(Sat May 26, 2012 7:15 pm)
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| 2800lb car ....26" tires ..... .70 OD ........3.55 gears works for me. |
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DonPal
TBI Slant 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
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Post subject:
(Sat May 26, 2012 7:48 pm)
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| Quote: | | So it seems that with the 65 non-OD 833 a 3.23 or maybe a 2.94 rear end would be fine. If I ended up using the 833OD, the rear end ratio ought to be stepped up to at least a 3.55 or preferably 3.91 or 4.10 for all around in town and highway driving. Do I have this correct? |
Consider the following approach to your problem...... think about starting from a dead stop on a hill:
1) I've been running a 2.94 rear in my 65 Dart with slant & 833 OD & seen gas mileage in hilly New England between 26 & 31 mpg depending on season & highway. At 70 mph the rpm is at 2100 ....slightly below the sweet spot for peak slant torque. At 75 it feels particuliarly strong. I never have to downshift from OD into 3rd if above 55 mph on any hill. I've run this combination just under 15000 miles......Consequently I think you need to consider starting up in first rather than cruising in 4th as the controlling decision maker. People running heavier Darts, Aspens, or Trucks may not get these results.
2) The factory provided the light weight 65 Dart's with slants with 3.55 rears (optionally with 3.23) when equipted with 4 speed manuals...1st gear in those manuals was 3.09. Consequently, assuming the factory knew something about getting the car underway on a hill from a dead stop then the 3.23 gear ratio was OK for those bent on good gas mileage & 3.55 was good for those wanting more pep starting up. With the emphasis in the 60's on performance the 3.55 was the stock rearend but the 3.23 was offered to improve the gas mileage.
3) The 833 OD also has a first gear ratio of 3.09 consequently it's possible that the 3.23 & 3.55 rear axle ratios would give the same pep for starting up but when put into 4th it's possible to get better gas mileage at a cruise.
Based on my experience I think you would be happy with the 3.23 if you live in a particuliarly hilly area but could go up or down from there depending on your position on pep versus gas mileage for your type driving. I can't imagine the need for a combined 833 OD & rear ratio higher than 3.55.
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1965 Dart 75k, 225, 1920 holley/alum intake, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. clutch, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. Goal-daily driver with good mpg.
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Rug_Trucker
Supercharged
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2594
Location: Pertneer Nashville TN
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Post subject:
(Sun May 27, 2012 8:32 am)
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My OD came from a 74 Duster with a 225 and 2.74's. Never drove it as it was all out of the car.
Must of had lots of top end!_________________ '72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers
'74Fart Dart 
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto  Dually Clubcab
93 Corolla |
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65 Dartman
Turbo EFI
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1055
Location: Strasburg, VA
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Post subject:
(Mon May 28, 2012 11:23 am)
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| DonPal wrote: | | Quote: | | So it seems that with the 65 non-OD 833 a 3.23 or maybe a 2.94 rear end would be fine. If I ended up using the 833OD, the rear end ratio ought to be stepped up to at least a 3.55 or preferably 3.91 or 4.10 for all around in town and highway driving. Do I have this correct? |
Consider the following approach to your problem...... think about starting from a dead stop on a hill:
1) I've been running a 2.94 rear in my 65 Dart with slant & 833 OD & seen gas mileage in hilly New England between 26 & 31 mpg depending on season & highway. At 70 mph the rpm is at 2100 ....slightly below the sweet spot for peak slant torque. At 75 it feels particuliarly strong. I never have to downshift from OD into 3rd if above 55 mph on any hill. I've run this combination just under 15000 miles......Consequently I think you need to consider starting up in first rather than cruising in 4th as the controlling decision maker. People running heavier Darts, Aspens, or Trucks may not get these results.
2) The factory provided the light weight 65 Dart's with slants with 3.55 rears (optionally with 3.23) when equipted with 4 speed manuals...1st gear in those manuals was 3.09. Consequently, assuming the factory knew something about getting the car underway on a hill from a dead stop then the 3.23 gear ratio was OK for those bent on good gas mileage & 3.55 was good for those wanting more pep starting up. With the emphasis in the 60's on performance the 3.55 was the stock rearend but the 3.23 was offered to improve the gas mileage.
3) The 833 OD also has a first gear ratio of 3.09 consequently it's possible that the 3.23 & 3.55 rear axle ratios would give the same pep for starting up but when put into 4th it's possible to get better gas mileage at a cruise.
Based on my experience I think you would be happy with the 3.23 if you live in a particuliarly hilly area but could go up or down from there depending on your position on pep versus gas mileage for your type driving. I can't imagine the need for a combined 833 OD & rear ratio higher than 3.55. |
Interesting write-up and observations. Prior to my pulling the 65 slant/833 combo from a 65 Signet I bought, I drove it quite a bit. IIRC it had a 3.23 non-SG and was quite peppy off the line. On the highway it seems the revs were up there at 70MPH but not objectionable. Other than what I have read, I've never had any experiences with the OD version. There's not a lot of hills in my area so that should not be a factor. It's too bad that the non-OD uses the B & T. It would be interesting to be able to swap to the OD for comparison. I would estimate my driving would be about 30 to 40% in town and the remainder highway. Just a cruiser with no drag strip time.
_________________
65 Dart GT convertible
65 Dart station wagon
65 Barracuda
87 D100 Short Bed
Retired USAF 1966-1986
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rlklaus
EFI Slant 6
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 321
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Post subject:
(Mon May 28, 2012 1:48 pm)
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Just a follow up observation here. This is a bit of apples and oranges but. I have a 3/4 ton Maxi-Van with the 833 O/D trans, behind a lean burn 318, with a 3.21 rear.
The power of the lean burn V-8 probably puts the power in the range of a well tuned slant six.
I mentioned earlier that if you do the math, a very steep rear end (3.90 or 4.10 would give you close to the non overdrive freeway gearing. That being said. Since the Van tips the scales at close to 5,000 pounds, I don't see any reason to not go with 3.23s, and take advantage of the highway mileage that the 3.23s an 833 O/D would probably give you.
On my 66 Valiant, I was going to jump through all the hoops to install one of the T-5s, and might yet go that way, but the ease of putting an 833 in there does have its appeal.
Just for reference the van gets about 13 mpg around town, but can get very close to 20 mpg between cities. I would think a Dart or Valiant, being almost a ton lighter, would give some great highway mileage.
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66 Valiant, 225.
84 Van, 225.
71 Maxi-Van, 318
60 Valiant wagon, 225
87 Maxi-Van, 318 4spd
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DonPal
TBI Slant 6
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
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Post subject:
(Mon May 28, 2012 6:09 pm)
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| Quote: | | There's not a lot of hills in my area so that should not be a factor. It's too bad that the non-OD uses the B & T. It would be interesting to be able to swap to the OD for comparison. I would estimate my driving would be about 30 to 40% in town and the remainder highway. Just a cruiser with no drag strip time |
You would then be very happy with a 3.23 in the pep dept since your without hills a great deal of the time.
Your "in town" driving would be mostly in 3rd if below 45 mph....although I'm in OD at 35 mph on a flat "in town" highway that doesn't need much acceleration with my 2.94....you'd be better.
Finally when it comes to your highway driving you'd be in OD most of the time with a very quiet motor compared to one without OD. Wear & tear would be also less since you'd be down around 2000 rpm around 65 mph depending on tire diameter. Without the hills you would virtually avoid a downshift under any circumstance other than exiting off the highway. And you could pull off a decent improvement in gas mileage....throw in HEI, electric fan, etc. & you could be getting up close to my results...if not better because your driving conditions on the highway would be better.
If you go with the 3.23 I'm thinking somewhere down the road you might consider the 2.94 for even better results...after you have enough time evaluating the 3.23 ratio against your expectations.
_________________
1965 Dart 75k, 225, 1920 holley/alum intake, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. clutch, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. Goal-daily driver with good mpg.
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nuttyprof
TBI Slant 6
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 233
Location: York NE
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Post subject:
(Mon May 28, 2012 7:01 pm)
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| One thing to consider, the first gear in both od and non od trannys are the same so if first gear acceleration is ok with a non od it will be the same with od! However the shifts are bigger steps so you might want to bring the rpm up a little more when shifting. JMO.
_________________
Dave
1977 d-200 crew cab ex-army pickup wants it's /6 back
1962 Valiant 2 door, 170, three on the tree
1972 d-100 parts truck
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