Hey Sandy,
I know what you mean. And this MAY be true, but it may NOT be true.

Besides, the way that it is being visualized (a permanent Aluminum Timing Tab) would take more time and effort, and that's what this "hobby" is about in the final analysis.

Am more apt to mess with the Timing just for the fun of it if it were easily and readily done. Like what would be the actual difference between 6 degree BTDC and 8 degrees BTDC. Would be able to do that easily.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Daniel,
The 10:00 O'Clock position is as untenable visually as is the 1:00 O'Clock position.



Does the '67-Up Timing Cover have theTiming Tab at 10:00 O'Clock?

Lorrie HAS a 1967 Timing Cover and the Timing Tab is at 1:00 O'Clock.

Actually what would be IDEAL would be for the Timing Tab to be at 7:00 O'Clock because: With the Engine running, and the Timing Light in one's right hand, onc could, with the left hand, reach up from underneath the Engine to manipulate the Distributor! And with the Timing Tab and Timing Mark on the Damper at 7:00 O'Clock, everything would be easily visible.

Have also thought that maybe a strip of VERY thin metal with "degree" markings on it could be adhered (epoxied, or Cyanoacrylat-ed) to the edge of the Damper.

This could get to be VERY nice.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Doc,
As far as can be seen, Lorrie's Timing Tab is somewhat rotated Clockwise compared to the Timing Tab in the JPG.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
EXACTLY! It's OBVIOUS, isn't it? Now if we can just come up with an idea on HOW to set the ORIGINAL, OLD Damper Timing Mark precisely in the Right Place on the ORIGINAL, OLD Timing Tab WITHOUT HAVING TO REMOVE THE RADIATOR...

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Sandy,
Too easy! You don't want me to have ANY fun, do you?

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Sandy,
"Yikes"?

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
Was confident that Lorrie was NOT the first Dodge to have given a caretaker this problem.



Am not SURE that I am confident... But I have no reason to doubt that the Timing Mark on the Damper, and the Timing Tab on the Timing Cover are NOT in the correct positions, so am going to proceed as if I actually AM confident!



Is there any way to do this without taking the Radiator out?



Yes. As was mentioned to Daniel, 7:00 O'Clock would be REALLY nice because it would allow seeing the Marks while dealing with the Distributor from under the Engine.



Yes.



Yes.



Right.



Know what you mean.



Will probably take JPGs of all of this. Will post them when it is finished.

Well, the NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs should be here this evening.

Am thinking of getting a Pertronix Ignition System of which JC Whitney is having a Clearance Special on ($70.49). May order that tomorrow if it is still valid.

Will keep you updated for sure.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I don't know. I have never worked on a P series van before, but it may very well be that you have to remove the radiator. It looks like you have VERY limited clearance around the front of the motor. Frankly, I would recommend removing as much of the front of the van as possible to give yourself as much access as possible during this process. Like I said before, do it once and do it right. If you skimp out now, you will just be coming back later to fix it right.

I do have one thought- I know that on older V-8 powered B vans (roughly 70-76) there was actually a window on the top of the transmission and there were timing marks cast into the top of the transmission bellhousing and there was a timing mark on the torque converter. That way it was very simple to time the motor from the driver's seat. You might check if your P van has such a feature. I don't know if the timing window was ever used on slant six transmissions though.

In fact, I just went back and looked at your pictures on your "phlog" again.



What is under that round cover at the back of the engine opening? That is where the timing window would be located if your van was equipped with such a feature.

I suppose that you could fairly easily drill your own timing window on the transmission bellhousing and make your own marks on the case and on the torque converter, but you would need to find a way to do this accurately.

Any chance you can put a mirror on a stick and time the motor that way?

As far as the timing mark needing to be at TDC on the compression or the exhaust stroke, I suppose it doesn't matter, so long as the piston is truly at TDC.



The spark plugs are a good choice, but if I was going to go through the trouble to upgrade the ignition, I would go all the way to HEI. It is a better ignition system that will give hotter spark and better performance and fuel economy, and it really wouldn't cost you any more than the Pertronix system. Pertronix is fine, but if I was doing your project, I would jump straight to HEI. It is just better, and if cost is the same or less, why settle for less than the best when upgrading?

Hey All,
Am thinking of getting a Pertronix Ignition System of which JC Whitney is having a Clearance Special on ($70.56). May order that tomorrow if it is still valid.

Is this anywhere near what Lorrie NEEDS and could use?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/breaker-point- ... d=b843u0j1

Would also get the accompanying Ignition Coil and Spark Plug Leads.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Free shipping ends today (5-21) at JC Whitney........

_________________
Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

JC... after chewing some more on this mule meat, one CAN get the #1 cylinder exactly on top dead center even tho none of the timing marks, nor tab is visible. Make your new timing tab as you wish fastening it how ever you wish. Then just use a piston stop as described else where on sight, BUT marking the damper @ the 'NEW' location. TDC is TDC, if its on the right (compression) stroke. It wont matter WHERE the old marks are, and no need to worry with them. You will then have tru TDC. As to how far to make the marks for ATDC/BTDC i wouldnt think more than 15 degrees would be necessary. And to mark those i think the easiest way would be to buy the correct timing tape for your diameter of balancer, and use it as a guide for marking permanent marks in the damper. Just my 3Cents worth and thoughts on the matter, now please pass the A-1...

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Mr. E,
And the Pertronix DIDN'T get ordered because am not sure that the one for which the URL got supplied is in actuality the RIGHT one for Lorrie Van Haul.

I hate it when THAT happens.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. OF,
Which makes removing the Radiator unnecessary. That would be MUCH better than having to take out the Radiator again.



Will have to find out about a "Piston Stop".

Went out this evening and laid under Lorrie's Engine, looking at how to design and attach the NEW Timing Tab.

It's going to be SOOOO easy. It will attach to the two Bolts on the front of the Oil Pan. Wait till you see how nicely it is going to turn out to be.

Have a comment that is related to this that came up while discussing the Ford 390 FE Engine in Ms. American. The FE Engines from the 332 ci, to the 428 ci all have the same size bores. The different displacements are achieved by varying the Stroke. So in order to find the displacement of the FE Engine, it has always been a matter of removing the Number Four Spark Plug and putting a dowel through the Spark Plug Hole, turning the Engine, and measuring the amount of motion of the Dowel. BUT, hardly anyone has a dowel handy to do this. So came up with the idea of using the Oil Dip Stick! It's always available, handy and works really well.



BUT, the Timing Marker on the Damper will be in the same position at TDC on the Compression Stroke as it would be at the end of the Exhaust Stroke. The Timing Light would know the difference because it is powered by the Number One Piston's Spark which happens at the end of the Compression Stroke.



Which is all that is necessary. GREAT idea!



It is welcome and appreciated for sure.

Anyway, the NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs just got delivered. Will be gapping them to 0.035 this evening, and installing them first thing tomorrow morning.

Daniel says to remove the Washers. But they won't just unthread. Should they be cut off with a pair of Diagonal Cutters, or maybe the Craftsman RotoTool and a Cutting Wheel?

Experienced something with Lorrie today that makes me wonder... She has been exhibiting an intermittant and random "miss", which makes a little "womp" sound, and creates a "puff" at the Tail Pipe.

So Lorrie's Engine got warmed up to 190 degrees today and then run at about 3,500 - 4,000 rpm for three or four minutes, and tha intermittant and random "miss" went away. Wonder what THAT portends.

Am eager to see what the NKG Spark Plugs do.

Anyway, it's about time to put it away for the night. Thanks for the response, comments, and ideas.

Here, take this bottle of A1 as a token of my graditude!

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
Mr. OF says to use a Piston Stop to determine TDC. That would make taking the Radiator out unnecessary.



To say the least.



Well, taking out the Radiator is no big deal. It comes right out once it is unhooked from the Hoses from the Engine and the Transmission.



Actually, THAT is what has been taking so long. Everything has been done as RIGHT as possible, plus being done RIGHT a number of times each.



Nor do I. But this would be GREAT if it is there.



I have often wondered THAT myself. I remember that when I had my first car, a 1931, Model A, Two-Door, Crown Victoria Sedan with six 19" Kelsey Hayse wheels (four on the ground and one in each Fender Well).

It too had a little "hatch" in the Firewall that when it was opened, let heat come off of the Exhaust Manifold into the Passenger Compartment.

Have always thought that the Round Cover at the back of Lorrie's Engine would let heat into Lorrie's Interior if opened, because it is right behind the Exhaust Manifold.



Will make it a point tomorrow to remove that Round Cover to see what is under it.



Well, if it turns out that the Round Cover IS the Heater Inlet, then I'm not going to go messing with cutting on the Transmission Bell Housing.

BUT, if it turns out that the Round Cover is actually covering a Timing Setup, that would make putting a NEW Timing Tab on the front of the Oil Pan unnecessary. AND it would restore some of my faith in the Designers/Engineers at Dodge for making a way to time the Engine without having to deal with the un-visible Timing Setup on the front of the Engine.



It would be easier and more accurate to install the NEW Timing Tab on the front of the Oil Pan.



Am going to be looking into the "Piston Stop" idea from Mr. OF.



Will do some research on HEI. The reason Pertronix was mentioned was because JC Whitney had them for $70.56.



Will look into it.



Good thinking.

Anyway, thanks for the response, comments, and ideas.

Will keep you updated on any progress.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Piston stop tool:

http://tinyurl.com/85e84c3

I didn’t search too much - you’ll have to find one that fits your spark plug holes. You screw the thing in. Rotate the engine clockwise by hand until the piston comes up (compression stroke) and touches the tool. Mark your damper.

Then rotate the engine counter-clockwise until it bumps the stop again - mark your damper.

The exact center between these two marks is true TDC.

I’m not sure that is the correct Pertronix kit for your van. I searched JC Witney and they don’t list one for a P200 van. Maybe they just don't know which one fits. I don’t know what the difference would be. They also don’t list one for a 67 pickup. Maybe they changed to electronic ignition in 67 and your engine has been changed? I don’t know.

Here is the kit I used in my truck:

http://tinyurl.com/7ysvtly

If the link doesn’t work it’s Pertronix P/N 1361A. Just search for a 64 Dodge D100. I don’t now what would be different with yours just because it’s in a van. Maybe someone else knows and will let us know.

Also the instructions say the Pertronix kit is made to be compatable with your original points style coil so there is no need to buy one. You can get a correct ohm coil that lets you bypass the ballast resistor and the new coil gets 12V. That would help the following problem but they are pretty costly.

It also says to NOT remove the balast resistor if so equipped but the Pertronix requires a 12V switched source. The easy way to hook it up is one wire to each side of the coil but the coil only gets 4V-6V. I had trouble finding somewhere to connect mine. If you connect it to the 12V side of the ballast it draws too much amps or something and the coil doesn’t get enough voltage and causes other problems.

I wired mine with a relay - triggered by the high side of the ballast resistor but then it draws voltage from the hot wire on the starter. SlantSixDan can help you with the parts and instructions. It’s not very hard. Take a look at his web site - the page about wiring headlights - and you'll get a good idea how to wire up a relay.

There is no timing tape for the slant 6 balancer. It’s too thin. Another of SlantSixDan’s good ideas was to mark it with different colors of nail polish. I'd have to look up the thread but I'm sure I'm not explaining it exactly right. Rotate engine 10 degrees, make a mark. Rotate another 10 degrees and make a different color mark. Repeat until you have all the marks you need.

One problem I’ve found is a timing light will only show up white marks so I’m not sure how well this works yet. You would need to write down the colors so you knew which was 10, 20, 30, etc.

Danny