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front hub bearing bore repair
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29932		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  front hub bearing bore repair
hey guys, been awhile. im wondering if any of you have encountered the front hub outer wheel bearing bore becoming enlarged so the outer race becomes loose in the bore.
i have a few ideas how to fix this and neither are cheap. one option is to send it to a machine shop and have it overbored and sleeved back down to spec, or sending it out to be spraywelded.
i have searched for good used hubs before and found many of them to be damaged the same way. id also like to keep the left-hand threads on the left side of the car.
anyone else looked into this?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I had the same problem. Bought a good used drum and hub assembly and ran it.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey! I was just looking through your old posts earlier today, wondering what'd become of you.

You may want to look into a Belzona solution to the wallowed-out hubs.

LH vs. RH threads are just a function of which lug studs and nuts you use.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
oh, i know it's as simple as pressing out the studs and re-using them in another hub, im just being finicky.
i'm assuming belzona is stable enough to machine once it cures? there's quite a bit of wobble there.
i guess im not here because my car's just staying together! but eventually a few issues have crowded up, and this is one of them.
if i could use a plastic metal epoxy material and machine it to the right size, that would cut costs considerably. and from the ad, it seems suitable. luckily, i have one spare hub that i can experiment with. i'll try it and report my findings!
thanks~
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
steponmebbbboom wrote:
i'm assuming belzona is stable enough to machine once it cures?


Yes. If I smile a lot while I say it, can I get away with just saying RTFSS? (Read The Spec Sheet)? ;-) :twisted: :mrgreen: :lol:

Quote:
guess im not here because my car's just staying together!


How'd that carb wind up working out for you?

Quote:
if i could use a plastic metal epoxy material and machine it to the right size, that would cut costs considerably. and from the ad, it seems suitable. luckily, i have one spare hub that i can experiment with. i'll try it and report my findings!


Please do. Belzona's been discussed on here before; see here. They make a lot of different formulas, so peruse the specs and check with them as necessary to figure out which one is best. There's also a competing product called Lab Metal; I don't know much about it.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
SlantSixDan wrote:
Yes. If I smile a lot while I say it, can I get away with just saying RTFSS? (Read The Spec Sheet)? ;-) :twisted: :mrgreen: :lol:


R'inTFdealerlocator. hope i find something local, im in a bit of a hurry.

Quote:
How'd that carb wind up working out for you?


which one, the holley or the stromberg?

the 1920 not so well, still has a full throttle bog that several oversize jets didnt solve. still runs a bit lean, even with a #65 jet and fuel consumption is high as well. dunno, i always ran clean fuel, with the filter mod. i might have to pick up one of your BBS carbs. still got any? id hate to break up a matched pair, so if youve got an orphan thatll work, let me know.

the WW is still waiting to go in, and since i ran across the 94 Dakota/Magnum cable linkage post, as soon as i get that i'm going to try it out. ive been using a stout PTO cable to control my choke and i'll probably use that on the WW if i still have room. id like to drop this in with my original engine, and all i need to finish that off is a good recurved electronic dizzy and a water pump with a bronze impeller.

its coming along. if i ever find a 3.23 suregrip to go in it i dont see what else i'll want to do to it. body repair. it's a good running four-door, and it's given great service with only a few wrinkles here and there. let's see if i iron these out! thanks~
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
steponmebbbboom wrote:
SlantSixDan wrote:
Yes. If I smile a lot while I say it, can I get away with just saying RTFSS? (Read The Spec Sheet)? ;-) :twisted: :mrgreen: :lol:


R'inTFdealerlocator. hope i find something local, im in a bit of a hurry.

Quote:
the 1920 not so well, still has a full throttle bog that several oversize jets didnt solve


See this thread.

Quote:
i might have to pick up one of your BBS carbs. still got any?


Several. Shoot me a PM.

Quote:
the WW is still waiting to go in, and since i ran across the 94 Dakota/Magnum cable linkage post, as soon as i get that i'm going to try it out. ive been using a stout PTO cable to control my choke and i'll probably use that on the WW if i still have room. id like to drop this in with my original engine, and all i need to finish that off is a good recurved electronic dizzy and a water pump with a bronze impeller.


That last item's going to be an interesting hunt. AFAIK, no such impeller was made. Materials were cast iron, phenolic over a cast iron core, and stamped steel.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
thanks again for the lead Dan, turns out i can get the belzona 1111 and 1121 at a place right in toronto. plenty of distributor hubs in the states, as well.

i'll follow that thread, and pm you if it doesnt work out.

theres one place i still havent called about the impeller, its a place that does marine stuff and theyd be adapting one to fit my pump. its at the bottom of my list. anythings better than stamped steel.

so On to the phone tomorrow and i might have this stuff in my hands next week, full report with pictures to follow, stay tuned :D
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:58 am ]
Post subject: 
steponmebbbboom wrote:
thanks again for the lead Dan, turns out i can get the belzona 1111 and 1121 at a place right in toronto. plenty of distributor hubs in the states, as well.


Yeah, but I thought you needed to repair a wheel hub. :lol: Keep us up to date on how this works out, please.

Quote:
theres one place i still havent called about the impeller, its a place that does marine stuff and theyd be adapting one to fit my pump.


Interesting. I'll be interested to hear about this, too, but...

Quote:
anythings better than stamped steel.


...but why? The stamped steel impellers work fine. What problem are you trying to solve?
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:42 am ]
Post subject: 
OK, just got off the phone with the lady at the order desk, she was very friendly helpful and knowledgeable! here's what i found out:
the 1111 super metal is available in 1, 2, and 5KG repair kits starting at $226.00 CAD plus taxes,
the 1121 XL metal is offered in the same sizes from $145 CAD plus taxes (since this is a more durable and versatile formula im not sure why someone would pay more for the 1111 and neither was she.)
however, the 1211 E-metal/1221 Super E-metal which is a quickset version of the 1111/1121 products is available in a 125g pouch, beginning at $56.00 CAD. again, the super-E is cheaper than the standard formula. All products she quoted were in stock and can be picked up right at the desk.

the one word of caution she passed on to me is that for the best bond, all contaminants need to be removed with acetone. i plan on hot-tanking my hubs at an engine rebuilder to remove any oil that's been absorbed into the iron. also, the 1211/1221 product only has 5 minutes working time and can be machined and returned to service after 15 minutes, so youll need to work fast. they also sell a release agent to mask any areas you do not want the product to stick to, and of course with all their products they offer technical instruction manuals on proper working techniques. Very impressed so far!

SlantSixDan wrote:
The stamped steel impellers work fine. What problem are you trying to solve?


they work fine, they just dont last as long, thats all.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
steponmebbbboom wrote:
Quote:
The stamped steel impellers work fine. What problem are you trying to solve?


they work fine, they just dont last as long, thats all.


H'm. Don't last as long as what? As long as the bearings or seals in the water pump? 10 or 20 years on an easily-changed pump isn't long enough for you...? Remember, a new pump costs about $40...

I'm either overthinking or underthinking, but I just don't get it.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
perhaps the slant is easy on stamped impellers, but my original one was deeply pitted from rust and i have changed hundreds of water pumps in forklifts and noted erosion and heavy pitting of stamped impellers in that time. this is almost always a symptom of a larger problem, usually lack of maintenance but sometimes cavitation during an overheat condition (for example the thermostat fails and the temperature gauge stops working at the same time or, you just fail to notice the trend :oops: ) and in any case, the bronze impeller will survive several overhaul cycles. since i had brass frost plugs installed in the engine, id like to round that out with a more durable impeller. john and i did several things to that engine to increase its longevity, not all of them made economic sense...
i will talk to them about quantity ordering of this impeller and if i can get the cost below a reasonable pain threshold i will post that information here to anyone who wants it.
just have to dig up their number again... wish me luck on that one :lol:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not saying there's no reason to pursue a bronze impeller — any kind of cast impeller can be made in a more effective, less cavitation-prone design compared to a stamped impeller. Before the change to stamped steel impellers on the slant-6 pump in '68 or so, the slant-6 pump used a cast iron or phenolic "vaned disk" impeller — I'm sure there's a picture floating around somewhere. This could likely be further improved with curved vanes. But durability? Naw. It just plain hasn't been a problem with the stamped impellers in the slant-6.

As for reducing corrosion, so far I am exceedingly impressed with Evans Waterless Coolant (this is a 3-stop flight: Go to the linked thread, then read the one linked off that, then read the one linked off that).

But getting back on topic: Once you've built up the Belzona material, how do you plan on machining the bearing race bore so that it is properly centred?
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
i dont have access to or experience with a lathe, so i plan on taking it in with a new outer cup and asking them to machine for a press fit, using the inner race bore as a centering reference.

in hindsight, i probably could have done this with my rear axle shaft that i had spray welded when the bearing chewed up the bearing land. it would have cost the same, but id have the pouch on the shelf waiting for this repair! :lol:
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Belzona pouch is on its way. here is a shot of the damage described: this counterbore is supposed to be the same i.d. all the way to the inner shoulder, but for some unknown reason the outer race has pounded it oversize, you can see this in the form of a ridge of upset metal halfway down the bore. this hub is off to the hot-tank to degrease and remove corrosion, then it will be media-blasted with 20 grit copper slag per product prep instructions before the filler compound is applied.

Image

note that some wear of the inner shoulder has occurred, and the ridge minus the bearing cup height will be used as a reference measurement to restore the correct shoulder depth. the nibs cut out in the shoulder for punch removal of the cup will be restored with a curved file.

as mentioned, the inner counterbore will be chucked in the lathe to ensure the bore is remachined on-centre.
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