On a freshly paved flat, non rutted, road the car tracks straight, slight steering inputs say 1" or less of wheel movement off of center won't cause direction change. Once driving in the ruts on old worn pavement which one encounters in town at traffic lights, on sections of back roads or the interstate, the car darts up & out of them. I have to drive on the high spots to mitigate the problem. One thing is the Dart's wheel spacing is narrower compared to the ruts, as most of these ruts are formed by large trucks.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

I got a chance to inspect the Dart's steering components, all are tight with no slop. The wheel bearings are seated according to the FSM method. Paraphrased: "Tighten while turning disk to 90 in-lb, using the nut lock, back off nut one notch and install cotter pin."

I purchased a front end alignment kit to check and set the toe. I was toed out, and now is 1/8th" toed in. It tracks straight on flat new pavement for hundreds of feet with no hand on the wheel, but still is jumping out of the tuck ruts in old pavement, and is real jumpy on the interstate at 70 mph in the ruts. It will pull left to or right depending on where the car is running in the ruts.

After starting this topic I have been driving the car on freshly paved roads at various speeds, total movement of the steering wheel left and right off of dead center before car changes direction is about 2 1/2". That seems a bit too much. I don't recall what a new recirculating ball steering box should feel like, but I don't recall that much slop. I leaning real hard to replacing my old box for a Borgenson unit.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Do you have 9" drums? The torque spec is substantially higher for disc brake bearings, at least in later factory manuals, and you can go even higher. I usually do about 12 ft lbs (~150 in lbs) or even a skosh more. Still, usually that does not improve slop much.

After crashing my 64 Valiant during spirited driving, I will never put factory PS on an A-body car again. Too slow to respond and sloppy. I imagine the Borgerson is much better. Factory manual steering is wonderful when set up and maintained properly. I still think you have something wrong inside your PS box - do the 2 bearing/sector adjustments check out good?

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

No 9" anything. The car came with 10 KH disks from the factory, I rebuilt them 13 years ago, and replaced them three years ago.

The car is now equipped with15 inch wheels big upper and lower ball joints, mid 70's B body big bolt pattern spindles & disk brakes from Dr Diff. I followed the spec for adjusting 1967 B body disk brake equipped Charger/ Coronet wheel bearings.

I have found that the top slop adjustment bolt/nut on the gear is tightened any more the steering binds progressively as it moves off center in ether direction. That is telling me she's worn just off ether side of center.

Today I'm going to recheck all front end parts for slop even though most all those part have around 3000 miles of use. Several years ago I replaced lower ball joints when the KH disks were still in use, only to find out that 1000 miles down the road they were worn out. So I'm leery of new replacement parts quality.

As for the second adjustment on the box I have not checked that. With headers and duel exhaust there ain't a lot of room for a wrench or hands to access the box without removing the front header and all that involves. (I have the good intake/exhaust ga$ket)

The last time I had the box out is when it went to Steer n gear, and I was porting the head at that time, access and removing the box was easy peasy.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Did you make sure the steering box was centered before setting the tie rods? If off center, it does not use the tight section at the center of the travel that is designed into the box. See FSM or I can explain more.

I also release the box a little by loosening the mount bolts and run the steering wheel lock to lock and back to center, then tighten the bolts down again. Do this with the front wheels in the air. This puts the box in a relaxed position relative to the steering column so there are lower forces and likely less wear/drag. The FSM discusses this too, IIRC.

Also, you want 70s bearing torque specs, not 1967. Quite a bit tighter. No adverse wear from any set I have ever seen (and run the $hit out of on a road course and across the country).

If the sector mesh was adjusted too tight, it might have worn the worm assembly out?? Just a random thought...

Ball joints, tie rods, etc, can wear really fast these days. I've seen horrible wear after 5-10k miles on new Moog stuff from 10-15 yrs ago and I'm sure it's no better now. I don't buy Moog any more except for the improved strut rod bushing kits.

Some people recommend ProForged (summit has them) and I have had good luck so far. I check slop with a channellocks and make sure it is 0.010" or less. Some are 0.060" out of the box! The NOS stuff is zero to 0.010". I had some Spicer "professional" stuff a while back that was good too, IIRC. I have a bunch of Proforged in stock for when anyone stops making good stuff for our cars.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Dart270:
Some people recommend ProForged (summit has them) and I have had good luck so far. I check slop with a channellocks and make sure it is 0.010" or less. Some are 0.060" out of the box! The NOS stuff is zero to 0.010".

Are you talking about wheel bearing run-out, or something else.

I not sure how you check bearings with channel lock pliers. And what is the 70's bearing tightening procedure? Please educate me, as I only have the 1967 Dart/B body FSM.

Bill

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Sorry, I mean the shaft of the balljoint or tie rod (or pitman/idler arm) in and out of the housing. I eyeball it or mount in a vice and try to eyeball while channellock compressing it and with a feeler gauge sitting nearby.

70s whl brg adjustment procedure is same as earlier, but just with a higher torque spec. I seem to recall 150-200 in-lbs, but don't have that at my fingertips/cerebrum.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Since I no longer indulge in spirited driving, I should probably keep my mouth shut, but I put a stage one Firm Feel box on my '64 Valiant slant six, and I love it. About 6,000 miles on it now and still feels like new. The stock box it replaced was typical mushy, dead and slow, so I just might be too happy comparing the changes, but it tracks true on our heat damaged Texas roads and handles nicely in a later model Mopar sort of way.

FWIW, I did a few other mods at the same time. it now has 14" radials, stock V8 torsion bars, '76 A-body disc brakes, upgraded shocks, and all new stock suspension parts.

Thanks for the info. To be fair, my real experience has been with mopar PS is stock boxes, and I'm sure they can be better than what I experienced. I just know I love the manual steering...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

When I had Steer N Gear rebuild my box in 2008, 30,000 miles ago, it was to their stage 2 which is still on the light side.

Dart 270:


I must be thick, but can't see what or how you are measuring a ball joint etc that is installed. It is ether tight & stiff, or all floppy & sloppy.

Back to the wheel bearing adjustment:

Per FSM pre-load 90 lbs/inch. Newer spec is 100 to 200 lb/in whatever it is, while spinning the wheel.

Install the nut lock such that a cotter pin can be inserted, remove pin, back off nut & lock one notch of travel, install cotter pin. Is that what you are recommending?

When I back off the nut, there is a wee bit of movement when grasping the tire at 6 & 12 O'clock when jacked up off the floor. Should all that play be removed from the wheel & tire assembly by not backing off the lock one notch, but less, so that there is no movement or preload at 6 & 12?

Bill

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.

82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp

07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Put the front of the car on jackstands. Now, put a jack under the LCA and load the suspension. Put a big channellocks from bottom of LBJ to the top of the stud coming out of it. See if there is play. Do similar with UBJ, tie rod ends, and pitman/idler arms (some don't need loading while in the air, or can/should be done with car weight on the wheels (like on wheel ramps or a drive-on lift).

I run the spindle nut down to 150 in-lbs (12 ft-lbs) while spinning the wheel, then I back off the nut (no wheel spin), retighten nut by hand, then I tighten the nut further until a hole is exposed to install the cotter pin, then install lock ring and cotter pin. Done. Sometimes I tighten with the wrench to the next hole, plus one more notch (20 deg or whatever) on the lock ring, then install the cotter pin. This should be less play than you had before, BUT you will never get rid of all the play (by grabbing the wheel and wiggling), from my experience.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988