Sorry guys, didn't mean to open up a can o' worms...
for the time being, i'll probably stick to the basic mod. I can always add the water separator later. Dan, any thoughts on what I mentioned about the rear-mounted electric pump in respect to this mod? Or should I just switch to a mechanical pump and be done with it?

H'mmm. Why was an electric pump installed? I find electric pumps on carbureted non-race cars tend to create more and bigger operation and safety problems than there are to solve in the first place. IMO the only reason to do this is as a quick fix pending replacement of a camshaft with a worn-out fuel pump eccentric. Often the installation isn't done thoughtfully. There are factors that don't get taken into account. the biggest one is that unlike a fuel injected application with a fully-closed fuel supply system, a carbureted application has an open fuel supply system. If you have a problem that causes the carburetor to flood (stuck float, stuck inlet needle, etc.), the engine will stall. A mechanical fuel pump will stop pumping, but an electric one will keep right on pumping as long as it has power…it'll pump the contents of your fuel tank into the carb, which will overflow and spill into the intake tract and onto the (hot?) engine and street below. The same will happen if you are in a serious crash. Sure, "turn off the ignition", but you have to think about situations in which you might not be able to do so. This can be addressed with thoughtful fuel pump control circuitry. For a clean installation without any nonstandard dashboard switches, you use a couple of relays. One, a timer relay, closes for 2 seconds or so when power is applied and then opens. This causes the electric pump to pressurise the supply line when the ignition key is first turned to "on". The main relay for the pump gets wired with its trigger circuit contingent on the oil pressure sender's state. If there's a ground at the sender, then the pump doesn't operate. That way when the engine stalls for whatever reason, the fuel pump will quit running after oil pressure drops off (usually within a few seconds of engine shutdown). If your engine requires extended cranking from cold for whatever reason, you can also put in a relay bypass circuit fed off the starter relay, so the fuel pump runs whenever the starter is cranking, regardless of oil pressure. The smart installer also puts in an inertial cutoff switch that kills power to the fuel pump if the car is hit hard.

Putting in an E-pump also means looking at the charging system, which is pretty marginal and beleagured on many of our cars. Line voltage already drops at idle -- lights dim, heater fan slows, radio gets quieter and staticky, wipers slow down, and ignition quality gets poorer until the engine is revved up. Adding another steady load on the electrical system will aggravate all those symptoms as well as stressing the fuel pump motor (motors don't like undervoltage; it makes them run hot). This is not incurable, either; there are perfectly good upgrades to be made to the alternator and the charging system wiring. But like proper control circuitry, it adds to the cost and complexity of "just put in an electric pump".

Then there's noise. Some pumps are noisier than others, but it can be harder than it might seem to find a quiet one and mount it such that you don't get chuckle or whine annoyingly audible throughout the car whenever it's running.

I just haven't (yet?) encountered the cold-start problem that couldn't be fixed without resorting to an electric fuel pump.

Now, back on track with your question, assuming you are keeping your present pump:



Don't see why not.



It's safest to have a flare; it greatly increases the pull-apart strength of the line-to-hose junction.



No.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks Dan,
I appreciate the info. The car had the electric pump in it when I bought it. I've only had the car since last fall, and with the brutal winter we had, I haven't had a chance to do much with it. My plan for spring/summer is to replace the fuel tank, sending unit, pump and all the lines and do the fuel line mod. I've been reading a lot of old threads, trying to determine what my best bets would be. I've been leaning towards the mechanical pump and your post just confirmed that. Aside from the drain on the electrical system, it's annoyingly loud. My only concern, like you said, is WHY did the P.O. install an electric pump? I'm hoping there's not a problem with the camshaft. Is there any way to know, short of installing the mechanical pump and testing the fuel pressure?

I did a quick search on Summit Racing and they are listing the Mallory version now for the same price. NAPA has the Merc Cruiser variety and many more listing under diesel pick up trucks and even one for my Mercedes. The new style brackets all seem to be nearly universal and use a spin on cartridge. They are slightly larger than the Fram canister version.
Many of the local and national race teams at the Puget Sound Raceways use them as well.

Mounting in a safe location is important! Dan brings up a good point.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I remove my posts in this thread, for the only reason that they only seem to invoke reactions, followed by stupid discussions that move the focus away from the purpose of the thread.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

I'm not attacking you, Olaf; I'm sure you're a fine person indeed. If I were attacking you, there'd be namecalling and other such blather, and I'd own up and apologise. I'm sure you'll agree we can do the grownup thing and avoid false accusations, right? Right. Now, it's regrettable you feel attacked -- try to work on seeing the difference between criticism of your ideas and personal attacks; they're not the same thing. I'm objecting to your consistent tendency to give advice based on ignorance and misunderstanding, phrased without "I think..." or "My understanding is..." types of cues to beginners that you're dispensing advice based on guesses and ideas, not based on knowledge. In the meantime, there's not a lot of math here: if you give questionable advice, it's reasonable to expect you might get questioned about it. If you find that distasteful, the solution is simple: when you stop giving questionable advice based on ignorance and misunderstanding and guesses and assumptions, you'll no longer have to risk the indignity of being called out for it in public.



Slant-6 fuel pressure spec is 3.5 to 5 psi, so…no, the 4psi figure is quite accurate. When you are interested in having a grownup discussion without straw men or red herrings or other such tactics, and without putting words in my mouth, I'll be glad to engage on your other questions.



Okeh, don't use the board's search function to find my detailed discussion of fuel system integrity and safety performance in our cars. I only suggested it because you claimed to want to read it, but feel free to keep right on gropin' in the dark. No skin off my nose. But as long as you keep giving questionable advice to those who don't yet know enough to recognise it for bad advice, I'm probably going to keep speaking up.

I will certainly cop to being a loudmouth. So are you. But me, I'm a loudmouth when I am sure I know what I'm talking about. When I don't know what I'm talking about, I try to keep my mouth shut, or at least run it a lot more quietly and with a lot more question marks than exclamation points. It's an important difference in how you and I operate. My way's not perfect; it's got the disadvantage that it creates the appearance of being a know-it-all, which causes some people to grumble and resent me. But for the most part, the grumblers are outnumbered by those who find that my advice…works. It doesn't mean I'm always right, but y'know, a really good way to get a reputation for wisdom and knowledge is to speak up in authoritative tones only when one is sure one knows what one is talking about. Facts and science trump guesses, opinions, and preferences every single time.

Look, I don't know what you're an expert on, Olaf, but it's a pretty good bet you know more than I do about something. If that subject were to come up and you were to demonstrate that you are particularly knowledgeable about it, I would hope to have the wisdom and maturity to learn from you rather than carping about your knowing more than I do. Everyone's entitled to his own opinion; nobody's entitled to his own facts.

(By the way, I haven't seen you at any of the vehicle safety conferences and symposia over the last fifteen years or so. Have we just missed each other? Or…)

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hi Dan,

Many thanks for this clear and detailed mod. I'm really hoping it'll solve my 225's horrible hot starting (at least ten seconds of cranking with the pedal floored if it's been sitting hot from 5 - 25 minutes; yes, I'm getting other carb work done).

I have the fuel injection line, the clamps, the new metal can fuel filter, and the 5'16" inverted flare-to-hose fitting. I could not, however, find the "90 degree swivel" fixtures at two auto stores and two hardware stores. My question is this: are they absolutely necessary, or have I misunderstood the requirements?

The brass fittings I have are these:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/wcssto ... i_detl.jpg

Are they correct? If not, was I supposed to understand that I needed that size fitting, but that it should be in a 90 degree configuration rather than straight like the ones I have?

Given that I have these, is there any reason not to fit them to the fuel pump outlet and carb inlet (2bbl super six setup with front inlets), hook up the fuel line hose (splicing on the fuel filter near the alternator) to both ends and go?

Also, does the fuel filter need to be mounted to the body wall (I guess that would require drilling?) or can it just live floating freely on the fuel line near the alt?

Thanks.

You use the straight fittings such as you have if your carburetor has a passenger-side fuel inlet. You use the 90° fitting if your carburetor has a front fuel inlet. You use a 90° fitting for the fuel pump outlet. So...yes. If nobody has it in stock, get a Dorman stockist to order it for you. Part number is at the beginning of this thread. Alternatively, you can (neatly!) cut the steel line that presently runs from fuel pump to carburetor, leaving a couple of inches at each end, and attach your fuel injection hose to that. Second preference, but it'll do at least while you wait for the 90° fittings.



Yes.



Usually this will result in the fuel line bending too tightly at the fuel pump end and swinging too wide at the carb (which will result in the fuel line being directly over the hot exhaust manifold. I try to avoid it.)



Nope, let it swing in the breeze.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks for clarifying for me Dan. . I try not to be dense:)

Well, I'm going to experiment with what I have. Perhaps putting some kind of cone/shield/collar thing at the spot where the fuel line meets the fuel inlet and fuel pump can stop it from crimping.

If I do end up cutting the steel line and putting the hose on it (likely), I have no idea what kind of tool I need to cut through that. Will be fun trying to explain this to the sullen teenage salespeople at Lowe's - lol.

Called a "tubing cutter". Lowe's probably won't have one suitable for 5/16" steel tubing, but even if they do, you'll spend more on it than if you just order the 90° fittings, even from rockauto.com .

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Ok, I've got my parts, and I guess I'm missing something.

I've got 2 of http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=WH_05705BC02_0215865571 those and my fuel pump http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... ecType%3aA).

Am I going crazy? how am I connecting the 1/2" outlet to the 5/16" threads on the brass fitting? Did I just get the wrong ones, or is the fuel pump outlet supposed to have a 5/16" female threaded outlet?

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65 4 dr. Valiant 200

Fuel pump link doesn't work, but if it's a slant-6 fuel pump, it's got the correct outlet threads for one of those two 90° brass fittings you got.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Sorry...this is the one I bought.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 048&Ar=AND

Should I have gotten something else?

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65 4 dr. Valiant 200

Still a Bad Link.
Is this the pump you bought?


Part Number: NFP M60577
Product Line: NAPA Fuel Pumps
Attributes:
Fuel Pump Fitting Size[s] : 5/16"; 1/2"-20 UNF-2B
Fuel Pump Gallons Per Hour : 23
Fuel Pump Pressure Rating : 4 lb - 5.5 lb

I bought the same one, but I have not done the conversion yet, I am in the middle of moving right now!