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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:18 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Location: Sonora, California
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Hi all,

I admit I've never rebuilt a carb. Something about anything with lots of small parts and springs always scares me (that's why I'm amazed at watchmakers).

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered two rebuild kits from NAPA ($15.99 each). This is much cheaper thant getting two rebuilt BBSs at $110-130 each.

Any tips on doing this right the first time? Things to watch out for? Things to make it easier? I have basic tools - do I need anything special? I also have the shop manual for the car, and it has a section on the BBS carb.

Finally, I'm pretty sure I need to re-jet - I went from one carburator to two carburators on a tired and basically stock motor (headers and pertronix). Where do I buy "jets" for this carb? Does anyone sell an assortment so that I can play with different sizes?

_________________
1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:12 pm 
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it's not very hard at all. Take your time, and do it when you have time to finish once you start. I have found that when I am at home with my boys (10 & 7) is not a good time to start a rebuild on a carb! LoL!
Have a fairly large work area where you can lay the parts out, in the order you take them off. Then just do the reverse. What's the worst that could happen?
I'm not sure about parts for them,I have never needed to rejet. Someone on the board will know.
You may not need to rejet them after rebuild. Could be normal use as they do wear out after a while. Check the bushings on the sides. much of the time these wear and cause a vacuum leak.
By the way, if the rebuild goes south, I just bought a bbs off ebay, rebuilt in the box for sixty five bucks + fifteen for shipping. If I can find the link for the seller I'll post it.
You should do fine! Hell, I managed to rebuild one.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:11 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:30 pm
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Location: Sonora, California
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Thanks hoosier for the encouragement!

k

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1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:29 am
Posts: 1040
Location: Texas
Car Model: 1964 Valiant convertible 225 automatic
As my old boss used to say...it's a ten minute job! The most important thing is to take care during dis-assembly and follow the instructions.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:22 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Good luck '63! To me redoing a carb is sorta like a tiny resto project in itself.

Anyway, the rebuild kit instructions are pretty vague and generic. If you have questions about settings post here and I'll share what the FSM says to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:39 pm 
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I'll echo what everyone else has said here: Rebuilding a BBS is not particularly difficult. It is intricate work, with lots of small parts, many of which look very similar but do not interchange. The exploded view that will come with your carb kit -- I hope you bought Standard-Hygrade kits; they're about the only really good ones on the mass market -- will help with component ID. Also, you will need a means to carry out a good and THOROUGH cleaning of the parts. A spray can of B12 ChemTool is useful and necessary, and can even be sufficient for cleanup of carb parts that have been apart in the last year or so, but for a proper rebuild you need a dip bucket of serious strong carb cleaner like TYME or Berryman B9 ChemDip. This is truly nasty stuff with lots of dangerous chemicals in it; you need to cover all exposed skin (ESPECIALLY YOUR HANDS!) as well as your face/eyes when working with it. But, there is no substitute for the kind of through-and-through cleaning you need to do for an effective rebuild.

Some things to watch for when rebuilding a BBS:

-The throttle shaft fit in the throttle body. There should be no perceptible side-to-side slop when you grasp the throttle shaft and attempt to wiggle it back and forth in its bore. If it moves sideways (and most of them move sideways after this many years) you'll be very much happier with the end results of your effort if you will have the throttle body rebushed. This service can be found locally if you beat the bushes; I used to use G&S Auto Machine (303-795-1412); they routinely offered 1-day turnaround on throttle bodies sent in for rebushing, but I don't know if they do this work any more. You send the throttle body assembly (complete with shaft and lever) to them; they disassemble, clean, rebush, realign and reinstall and send it back to you. Air leaks here can frustrate your every effort to make the carb work right.

-The mating surfaces where the top (airhorn) casting meets the middle (float and jet housing) casting, and where the middle casting meets the bottom (throttle body) casting. Especially the top:middle junction tends to warp over the years because people overtighten the screws. Trying to straighten the surfaces is iffy at best, and it's very easy to create new air leaks at these junctions by trying. Best to use two (or even three, if necessary) gaskets; the extra thickness helps ensure against air leaks here. Make sure that any extra gaskets you use have all the necessary holes and no unnecessary ones that will create air leaks (extra holes that will be completely within a sealed surface or completely outside it are OK, you just have to watch out for the ones that *cross* a sealed surface, for they'll create an air leak). When installing these gaskets, I always wet them with light oil (e.g. Marvel Mystery or 3-in-One) so that they don't cook to the metal surfaces. Makes it easier to disassemble the carb next time, and the oil swells the gasket paper, again helping with sealing.

-The small rubber O-ring at the base of the step-up piston cylinder. VERY easy to miss this guy! You need to remove it and install the new one, or the carb won't work right.

-The accelerator pump inlet check ball seat. This is the one at the bottom of the large cylinder where the accelerator pump plunger rides. In the early carbs ('60-'63) this ball sits below a little stamped metal retainer, but in the '64-'74 BBSs it just sits atop its hole in the bottom of the cylinder. The ball is supposed to seat tightly against this hole so all the gasoline in the cylinder goes through the accel pump outlet passages, instead of leaking back through the inlet passages. The technique here is to place a blunt-end punch or piece of rod firmly atop the OLD check ball and, with the middle casting firmly supported, give the rod a few sharp raps. You will know you've done it right when the ball "sticks" into place on its seat; don't panic, just use a small screwdriver to pry the ball off the seat, then discard the old ball and install the new one. This re-forms the seat so the new ball can seal well on it.

-The accelerator pump plunger's working part is the leather cup at the bottom. You need to soak this cup in oil (again, Marvel Mystery or 3-in-One or even regular engine oil) for about 5 minutes, then remove it from the oil, use a small screwdriver or your fingernail to grasp the underside and flare the lower edge of the cup outward. Don't be timid, really flex that leather outward! It's next to impossible to overdo it here; just don't fold the leather back on itself. Then back into the oil it goes. When you're ready to install it (don't forget that new check ball and the bowl vent clip on the accel pump plunger shaft!), use a rotating motion when installing the cup into the cylinder, so that the leather doesn't fold back on itself.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:56 pm 
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Location: Central GA
Car Model: Many & varied, including stock & hopped up /6's
...the Carter BBS carburetor can be rebuilt in one's sleep. :lol:

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:33 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:30 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Sonora, California
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Wow!

Thanks Dan!

Excellent tips. Thanks for taking the time to write them down. I know I'll be printing out this page when I do the rebuild.

Yes - I have the NAPA / Echlin kit - but I think it's the same - it has an awesome exploded diagram which is 10 times more detailed than what's in the original factory service manual for the car.

I also have a "SA" book on Carter carbs (AFBs, etc.) that has a bunch of basic theory stuff (by Dave Emanuel). I'm hoping that by understanding the "reason" that I'm doing something, I'll be more likely to do it right.

Re: B-12 -> I love that stuff -> on my previous (non slant mopar), I used to put a can in my engine before oil changes, then run the engine for 1/2 hour, then change the oil. I also used to put a can in my gas tank when I going on long trips (didn't want it to stay in the tank too long). Don't know if any of these habits were actually good for the engine, but they made me feel better!

:lol:

_________________
1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:20 pm 
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I don't like the Echlin kits as well as the Hygrade kits -- the Hygrade kits are more complete and have a little better materials.

Yep, B12 is great stuff, but you definitely will need that dip type stuff as well.

Not much (if any) coverage of the BBS in the SA book; this is one of those jobs where a factory service manual is worth more than its weight in gold. There's no aftermarket book that can substitute, really. Have you got one for your car?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:13 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:30 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Sonora, California
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Yes - have an actual reprint of the original 63 Dart, (and Dodge 330, 440) owner's manual.

Was hard to find, but it amazingly useful.

I also have an *Australian* reprint of their "Valiant" service manual - some things are the same - but the Aussie manual goes way into detail on stuff like rebuilding alternators, and such. I guess when you are in the outback, you can't just run to Kragens or whatever!

;-)

_________________
1963 Dodge Dart, motor by Doug Dutra, Offenhauser two carb intake, Pertronix, Clifford 6x2, Flowmaster 40's, Erson RV15/295 RDP, head work. Addco anti-sway bar, urethane suspension bushings, KYB's, racing leafs, SSBC discs. Need ZDDP? Get STP.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:17 pm 
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The US manual goes into equal detail on rebuilding alternators and carburetors, starters, distributors, etc. Is it possible your reprint is not complete? (I've never bought reprints, since used originals are so easy to find).

Be advised there are a bunch of little differences between the '60-'63 BBS and the '64-up style, but they interchange as an assembly, and many early cars have later carburetors.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:42 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:21 pm
Posts: 37
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Just read Dan's tips after rebuilding my Carter BBS (#7172S). Wish I read it first. D'oh! Luckily it's not on the car yet. A few questions:

1. Should I have secured the accelerator pump inlet check ball with a few raps like your directions? Wasn't sure if that applied to my model since I'm not sure what year it was made.

2. After reassembly I noticed that when the throttle lever moves all the way up it just barely rubs against the screw to the fast idle cam. Hmm. Any thoughts?

3. Is there a recommended starting position for the idle screw? Wasn't sure if there was a rule of thumb for how to replace that to give yourself a decent starting position for tuning after putting it on the car.

Otherwise I think I did alright. Guess we'll find out when it goes on! **fingers crossed** Thanks guys!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:38 pm 
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spare_parts13 wrote:
Just read Dan's tips after rebuilding my Carter BBS (#7172S).


Sounds to me as if you found your kit, eh!

Quote:
Should I have secured the accelerator pump inlet check ball with a few raps like your directions?


Probably wasn't needed, didn't you say this is a new carb? Therefore no corrosion or wear to this seat.

Quote:
After reassembly I noticed that when the throttle lever moves all the way up it just barely rubs against the screw to the fast idle cam. Hmm. Any thoughts?


Common to find bent throttle levers on new old stock carbs. Grab offending portion of throttle lever with large pliers and bend away from point of interference.

Quote:
Is there a recommended starting position for the idle screw? Wasn't sure if there was a rule of thumb for how to replace that to give yourself a decent starting position for tuning after putting it on the car.


Idle speed screws can't really easily be pre-set; idle mixture screw a decent starting point is 1½ turns off its seat.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:40 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:21 pm
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I did in fact find the kit. And for a complete novice, the rebuild wasn't too bad. Luckily the NOS carb meant I didn't need to soak or deal with decades or crust.

Thanks so much for the tips!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:20 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:15 pm
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Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Luckily the NOS carb meant I didn't need to soak or deal with decades or crust.

Haha that was me. But you're right, it was pretty easy.
- Allen

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1962 Valiant V-200
170 C.I. Super Six, HEI, Dutra Duals


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