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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:00 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:33 pm
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia - USA
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I just bought a 1973 Dodge Dart Custom with a Super Six. I have a Dodge van with a Slant Six and have owned it since 2001. I do all of my own work on the van motor and have never had any major problems. However, my Dart will not idle. The idle is so terrible that the entire car shakes and rumbles. When I drop into gear the engine normally shuts off. I am literally losing my mind over this situation and have wasted three days trying all sorts of stuff.

First I thought I was not getting enough air. But it turns out I was possibly getting too much air. I discovered a couple vacuum leaks and repaired those. Also the mounting bolts in the manifold were a bit loose.

Then I spent an entire day attempting different idle and fuel/air adjustments. I also changed the sparks plugs and cleaned the distributer cap and made sure the battery was fully juiced. It is an optima battery with 1000 cranking amps and the engine has Accel high performance electronic ignition as well as a high performance coil.

Then I thought that possibly my choke was sticking because the car will not start cold. I have to turn it over numerous times and after about ten minutes it will finally fire and then I have to keep feeding it gas to maintain combustion. I inspected the choke and everything seemed fine but I am really not sure.

Once I finally get the car started it will idle very roughly at no less than 140 degrees operating temperature. If I powerbrake the car I can get it into drive and ride on. But unless I feed the car gas it will cut off in low gear. When I finally get out on the interstate the car runs reasonably smooth but lacks the power it should have.

I bought the car last week and the guy I got it from gave me receipts for an entire engine rebuild last year. The carb is only a year old as well but it is a cheaper Mexican unit I suspect. However, when I do finally did maintain an idle I listened to the engine carefully from both the frontend and the tailpipe. It sounds like the engine is missing slightly and I fear I might have a bad lifter causing the valve not to open up until I am at higher RPMs. Another mind-boggling thing is that when I inspected the old spark plugs I did not notice any oil or excessive carbon. The plugs looked like they were firing normally and honestly this blew my mind a bit.

Well friends, I am seriously dumb-founded at this point and extremely frustrated. Any and all advice is highly appreciated. Should I go ahead and buy a brand new carb from NAPA or try other things first?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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Location: North America
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Welcome on the board.

You cannot get brand new carburetors from NAPA or any other parts store — just "remanufactured" garbage that will make the problem worse rather than better, see this thread.

It might well be worth your while checking to make sure the EGR valve isn't stuck open (or hooked up incorrectly so it always has vacuum), and check for cracks in the floor of your intake manifold, especially if it's aluminum. Keep checking for vacuum leaks, particularly at the manifold-to-head junctions. Also remember that ignition problems can mimic carburetion issues. Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:28 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Atlanta, Georgia - USA
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What do you think about a universal Holley 2bbl 350 CFM carb? It is not a remanufactured carb but I am not sure if it will work. Jeggs has them for sale presently.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:22 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:54 pm
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I think quite a few guys are running the 350 holley on slants. I have one on my dart. I did some head porting and matched the intake runners to the head to help with flow. I like it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:05 pm
Posts: 770
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Dan can steer you into the right carb purchase that will work and make life easier. Wait for his reply.


But I would like to get you thinking here. Buying and throwing parts at it will not fix your problem unless you get lucky. You need to test and figure the problem out and then you know what to do to fix it. I knwo its frustrating and after awail you ready to just spend and try anything.



Right off by what you described, the car sounds like it may be running lean. Vacuum leaks and carb problems could be the cause.


But, it also sounds like you may have a cylinder not making power. This may be why it seems to get smoother on the highway, but down on power.


Again, even a strong vacuum leak could be the cause. But it could be many other things.


A few things to do.

Checking for vacuum leaks. The easest way to do this is with a can of carberator cleaner. With the engine running you spray it around the base of the carberator, intake, vacuum line , ect,ect...... If you find a leak the engine will change in the way it is running and you will know the leak is somewhere around where you was spraying.


Check that EGR valve as meantioned. When it is messed up it is just like a big vacuum leak.


Grab the carberator and try to twist it. They get loose in the bolts that bolt the carberator together and can cause big problems and you will not notice it leaking vacuum when testing, but when you drive the car the throttle linkage will pull on the carb and then it will suck air.


Valve lash ajustment can cause your problems very easy. Ajust them, if you dont know how there is a thread on here that tells how. Do a search. The lifters should be solid on this engine and they will not pump up when the RPM's are raised.



Do you know how to pull the spark plug wires while the engine is running to test for a cylinder that is down on power. This can help point you in the right direction. You can take a test light and use it to ground each plug wire and do the same thing. You ground the end lead of the light, stick the piont of the probe down into the boot of the wire and when it grounds the wire it will kill that cylinder. When you kill the cylinder the engine will slow down on idle RPM. If you kill the cylinder and it does not change the engines running then you know that cylinder was dead, or down on power to begin with.


Did you check that the firing order is correct on the car. Someone could have put a plug wire back wrong when checking for the problems before.
What about taking a ohm meter and checking the plug wires ?



By doing some real testing it will help to point you in the right direction. There are so many possibilities that without some info its just hard to guess what is going on and could lead to really wasting your time, and money a lot.


Jess


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:43 am 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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First thing, I would do, is check the valve adjustment. If that isn't rught, nothing esle will make any sense.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:53 am 
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Yep, valve adjustment would be at the very top of my list!

Lou

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:55 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Atlanta, Georgia - USA
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Update:

Okay friends. I have spent another half day under the hood and found two more problems. First, the throttle on the rebuilt carb is worn and loose. I can grab the throttle linkage and actually wiggle the entire rod that passes through the base of the carb. When I had the car idling I placed my thumbs tightly on each side of the throttle rod and the vacuum decreased and the idle altered a bit. But only slightly. At this point I want to replace the carb entirely and then work from there. I may need valve adjustments and so forth but I'd at least like to have a good operative carb before I dig deeper into the engine. The second problem with this carb is that the choke is actually screwed. To cold start today I had to remove the breather and manually close the top flap of the carb. Once I did this the car fired up.

I have a big question though. I am trying to save money and the brand new universal Holley 2 barrels are around $300. Does anyone know whether a Holley 2245 2 bbl carburetor will work on my Super Six? The Holley 2245 2 bbl carburetor came stock on many Chryslers from 1976 through 1980. It is a 350 CFM carb. The reason I ask is that a friend of mine has one in perfect condition and will sell it to me for $50. Every penny counts for me right now. However, if I have to get a custom adapter made it might defeat the purpose.

Thanks friends!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:25 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:44 pm
Posts: 779
Location: New England
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Summitracing.com Trans-Dapt 2086 for 13 bucks will probably work as an adaptor. I'd get the carb from your friend, save $. Just don't let it come between you. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:33 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Atlanta, Georgia - USA
Car Model:
Thanks for all the advice guys. This website is truly one of the kindest and most informative automotive forums on the web.

P.S. Slantfin ... I ordered that adapter. Thanks for the reference. Now I have under $70 invested in my carb set-up as opposed to over $300. I can use the other cash for frontend parts.

Cheers!
Jason


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Atlanta, Georgia - USA
Car Model:
HELP/ADVICE PLEASE!!!

Another Update:

Well, I discovered the main problems with my Dart. The timing was severely off on the engine and the carb is absolute junk. Not even worth trying to rebuild that Holley carb. The 2245 Holley my friend sold me was junk too. It's a lean burn carb and 500 CFM on top of that. I took that carb apart and cleaned it out because some microscopic rust had clogged it up a bit. Once I got it on the engine it was burning incredibly lean. I adjusted the screws out until they were almost dangling and it was still too lean! Luckily my friend said he'll take the carb back and return my $50. Hey, it was worth a try at least.

But now I clearly cannot save money. Turns out I not only need a new carb but a new gas tank as well. The tank is full of rust and will only damage any new carb I decide to buy. ANd at this point I am looking at spending at least $300 on a new carb. However, I refuse to buy another remanufactured Holley or Carter.

Here's my questions for you fine folks. I do not really want to use the universal 350 CFM Holley offered by Summit Racing and Jegs. It's over $350 with shipping and I simply do not like Holley carbs. Rather, I want to use a Weber. I like Weber carbs and have used them in the past on both cars and motorcycles. They remind me a lot of Mikunis which I presently run on both of my 1973 Triumph Bonneville motorcycles. They are just solid carbs and easy to adjust and tune in my opinion.

I called the United States Weber distributor and talked to their technical line. The tech guy at Weber told me a 32/36 DGEV will work good on a Super Six but that I need to also buy the linkage conversion kit as well as the air filter. Keep in mind that I am actually running a 4 bolt flange manifold off of a 1978 Dodge Diplomat on my Dart. Summit Racing has an adapter for this carb configuration but unfortunately the car is over at my friend's shop a half hour out of town and I need the exact bolt pattern measurements in order to buy the proper adapter. Oh, and he's not presently answering the phone.

Does anyone here by chance know the measurements for a 4 bolt Diplomat 2 BBL manifold? Also, anyone here like Weber carbs or have any opposition or advice about running a Weber on a Slant Six?

Thanks Friends!


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:28 pm
Posts: 645
Location: SFCAUSA
Car Model:
I was having all the same problems that you posted. I have a '60 valiant, I tried everything after messing with carb & timing:

a.) New EI-luckily i got the whole shebang for $30.00 dizzy & box.
b.) New plugs.
c.) New coil (desperation set in at that point)
d.) Coolant flush
e.) ADUST THE VALVES

OH THE SWEET MUSIC! This was the magic pill so to speak.

If you haven't done this before (like me) do not be afraid son-It was one of the easiest things ive done and you will be a changed man.

P.s. Don't use a brass feeler gauge you'll squash it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:49 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6233
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Here's a quick fix for catching the rust in the gas tank before it clogs up the fuel filter:

Image


Use an oil filter.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:10 pm 
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british_steel wrote:
I need to also buy the linkage conversion kit as well as the air filter.


In your position I'd hit the wrecking yards (or www.car-part.com , or eBay ) for a stock-type, thermostatic air cleaner assembly off of one of the cars that used a Weber carb as original equipment. This will wind you up with better filtration and better driveability than those ridiculously minimal cotton-floss open-element rectangular "air cleaners" the Weber distro want to sell you. Only problem is, you'll have to get someone else on here to tell you what cars used the Weber as OE in the '70s. I want to say certain Ford 2.3 applications and maybe some AMCs, but I don't know more specifically.

Quote:
I need the exact bolt pattern measurements in order to buy the proper adapter. Does anyone here by chance know the measurements for a 4 bolt Diplomat 2 BBL manifold?


If it helps, the adaptor you need is the same one used to install these Weber carbs on a 258 Jeep engine.

If you haven't yet adjusted the valves, see the valve adjustment procedure.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:42 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:33 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Atlanta, Georgia - USA
Car Model:
Thanks Guys again for the advice. The Jeep manifold reference is great help as well as the air filter advice. I'll hunt down a air cleaner as opposed to the one Weber offers. If you guys are interested, here's my project thus far:

The Engine has a solid bottom end and was rebuilt a year ago. The guy I bought it from simply put a junky Autozone carb on it and set the timing improperly. He got frustrated and sold me the car for $1200.

Image

Repainting the valance now after hanging a new bumper. The guy I bought it from backed into a mailbox and destroyed the valance and bent the old bumper pretty badly.

Image

I blacked the grill out. Sorry but I hate dull gray plastic grills. Hey, this is not a restoration job ... it's basically a daily driver rat car.

Image


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