This is more to do with the electric fuel pump. I recently had the problem that the diaphragm(Think that's how you spell it) failed in my mechanical pump, fuel into the sump. I was advised this would happen every few years because the pumps aren't correctly made for modern day fuel. Is this true? If so I think this might be another reason to get an electrical pump. I have however been told that the noise and work require isn't worth it.

For the fuel pump that I recently purchased none of my local car shops had brass fittings that had the same thread as the pump. I had to buy parts from the speed-flow range. Every possible type of fitting existed at a expensive lifetime replacement warranty. Also a very very safe product to use.

Yeah, that's it. I think the link doesn't work because I have a NAPA account with the car model saved and such. Maybe a vintage correct /6 pump has a different outlet size? I have no idea.

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65 4 dr. Valiant 200

No.



"Another"…? H'mm. Except in certain specific situations, electric pumps generally cause more problems than they solve on carbureted vehicles. The biggest one is that unlike a fuel injected application with a fully-closed fuel supply system, a carbureted application has an open fuel supply system. If you have a problem that causes the carburetor to flood (stuck float, stuck inlet needle, etc.), the engine will stall. A mechanical fuel pump will stop pumping, but an electric one will keep right on pumping as long as it has power. It'll pump the contents of your fuel tank into the carb, which will overflow and spill into the intake tract and onto the (hot?) engine and street below. The same will happen if you are in a serious crash. Sure, "turn off the ignition", but you have to think about situations in which you might not be able to do so. This can be addressed with thoughtful fuel pump control circuitry. For a clean installation without any nonstandard dashboard switches, you use a couple of relays. One, a timer relay, closes for 2 seconds or so when power is applied and then opens. This causes the electric pump to pressurise the supply line when the ignition key is first turned to "on". The main relay for the pump gets wired with its trigger circuit contingent on the oil pressure sender's state. If there's a ground at the sender, then the pump doesn't operate. That way when the engine stalls for whatever reason, the fuel pump will quit running after oil pressure drops off (usually within a few seconds of engine shutdown). If your engine requires extended cranking from cold for whatever reason, you can also put in a relay bypass circuit fed off the starter relay, so the fuel pump runs whenever the starter is cranking, regardless of oil pressure. The smart installer also puts in an inertial cutoff switch that kills power to the fuel pump if the car is hit hard.

Putting in an E-pump also means looking at the charging system, which is pretty marginal and beleagured on many of our cars. Line voltage already drops at idle -- lights dim, heater fan slows, radio gets quieter and staticky, wipers slow down, and ignition quality gets poorer until the engine is revved up. Adding another steady load on the electrical system will aggravate all those symptoms as well as stressing the fuel pump motor (motors don't like undervoltage; it makes them run hot). This is not incurable, either; there are perfectly good upgrades to be made to the alternator and the charging system wiring. But like proper control circuitry, it adds to the cost and complexity of installing an electric pump.

Then there's noise. Some pumps are noisier than others, but it can be harder than it might seem to find a quiet one and mount it such that you don't get chuckle or whine annoyingly audible throughout the car whenever it's running.

I just haven't (yet?) encountered the starting or running problem caused by fuel delivery issues that couldn't be fixed without resorting to an electric fuel pump.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

All slant-6 fuel pumps have the same 5/16" inverted-flare outlet fitting (though it's inbuilt on '64-up pumps and achieved with an adaptor on '60-'63 pumps).

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

does this puppy look OK 4 use?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1423.l2649

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slant six's RULE!
http://www.usajon.com

I bought some very low priced fuel pumps (Carter and Mopar) on eBay, originally intended for late model Dodge Diplomat, and some older truck. The angle of the inlet/outlet pipes was different from those on my '77 Aspen, but one nipple is for the intake hose, which is reasonably flexible reagrding the angle, and the other was used for a shorter, self made pipe to attach a hose, used with the 'fuel line mod'. The angles on the Dippy pump were actually better than stock for me, but you may be more restricted with space on some models.
If you are not restricted regarding the space when attaching hose and pipe, some bargains can be had for fuel pumps.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

I've tried, unsuccessfully, attaching the suggested vapor line addition at the filler tube in my 65 Dart. I put a tee right where the vent line attaches immediately adjacent to the filler tube. The vent line angles sharply upward at that point.

The vapor line has two orifices...one near the engine & one near the vent line tee. The orifice openings are .026" diameter made with a #72 drill. The intent of the orifices was to slow the rate of fuel moving thru the vapor line due to the bleed off from the fuel pump output.

Even with the gas tank half empty there will be a leakage of fuel from the vent line when the car is first stopped. It's noticeable enough to form a 6 inch diameter puddle on the pavement.

Beyond the safety concern is the smell of gas & impact on gas mileage.

I found that since I installed the vapor line my mpg dropped noticeably so I'm convinced that the idea of putting fuel into the filler tube right where the vent line attaches needs improvement.

I've blocked the vapor line & the mpg improved immediately.

Has anyone attached the vapor line to an Early A Body tank differently?

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

That suggestion is only workable on '71-up ('70-up in California) cars with closed fuel tank vents. As you've discovered, the open vent in your '65 means loss of fuel. You could possibly make it work if you were to use a Wye fitting rather than a Tee fitting, so the newly-attached vapour return points downward, and located this tap-in down at the bottom of the vent line near the trunk floor. But I think you'd be better off drilling and tapping a new fitting into the top of the filler neck itself. If I were doing this, I'd put the new fitting about 3" inboard of the fender.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I have an elec fuel pump in my car, It's a 60psi pump if i remeber correctly and needs a return line. I took the filler neck for the gas tank out popped a hole in it, welded a nut in the hole and threaded a fitting to hook my return line to dump the fuel right down the neck back into the tank.

Kev

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Pulled gas tank fuel filler tube inaccordance with instructions on pg 14-77 of the 65 Dart Service Manual.

Filler tube has an internal baffle that can't be seen from the Gas Cap location since the baffle is sloped in the tube. The baffle attaches to the roof of the filler tube near the gas cap. The baffle slopes down in the tube and ends up being in the middle of the filler tube where the filler tube enters the tank.

Assume the purpose of the filler tube baffle is to let air escape, at the top half of the filler tube, when filling the tank with fuel (can't call it gasoline anymore!). Fuel is directed down the bottom half of the filler tube while the escaping air is directed up the top half of the tube.

When the baffle slopes up to the top of the filler tube & is attached it only has two small holes in it for the air to rapidly escape during a fill up.

It seems the upper half of the baffle does nothing otherwise......so it might be the best spot to align a vapor line hole & installed 1/4 tube so that any gas coming from the fuel pump can dump into the steepest slope available to get it to the tank. Hopefully minimizing the chance for the vent line to see any of that gas during turns, on hills, quick stops, or any combination thereof. The baffle is also restricted at the top where it joins to the roof of the tube near the vent line location which also may "squeeze out" any vapor line fuel making it up the baffle slope on a turn.

The filler tube appears to have a lead/tin coating on the interior & exterior so soldering seemed better than welding. A MAPP torch provided enough heat & allowed a significant crossection of solder to resist cracking.

Also rested the 1/4 vapor tube on the baffle so that the combined touching of the baffle & soldering at the tube provided a stronger "moment connection" than just soldering to the tube wall. The 1/4 tube had an angle cut on it so the end resting on the baffle wouldn't block flow.

The vent line comes in the same trunk grommet hole as the vent line exits & comes up behind the filler tube directly to the 1/4 vapor tube soldered to the filler tube. That 1/4 vapor tube has a right angle bend in it to make the R9 fuel line hose connection straight & true.

Pictures available....send your email address by PM

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

Send me your pics (62lancer at gmail dot com) and I'll host 'em.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Installation instructions and pictures for attaching a vapor line to the early A body gas filler tube are located at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/donpal/640 ... hotostream

I have enough roadtesting of this arrangement to satisfy me that the gas circulated thru the vapor line & back to the filler tube is not making it's way into the vent line and dumping on the ground.

A 1/4 inch reinforced fuel injection hose (R9) is used for the hose connections occuring in the trunk.....a shield might be added to insure objects thrown in the truck do not damage the vapor line connection & cause a leak.

My vapor line has two added orifices (#72 drill=.025 inches) over and above that provided by the filter to slow down the gas flow back to the gas tank.

Note that if your adding a Tank Sentry or unleaded fuel restrictor plate it's important to stay on the gas tank side of that restrictor also.

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

I'm so excited. I did the mod, and my cold starting difficulties have gone away!

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1980 Volare, Super Six Intake

Hoorah!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Hi all, I am looking to do this mod to my '71 Duster 225 to combat the hot starting issues I've been having. I have read through this thread but would like a little extra advice before I go ahead and start. Pictures would be great as well.

I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to car maintenance, but I've been having my dad and some buddies help me out when I hit a wall.

Thanks in advance!