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 Post subject: engine wont start cont.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:30 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:44 pm
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Location: salem oregon
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topic says it all.

im gonna try and explain this as best as i can so bear with me.

THOR and i did the timing chain set for my car, i did the cap,rotor,condensor etc. anyway in the midst of the cap/rotor i had to take the distributor out. couldn't fit my hands between the oil filter and itself (to secure it down) well not thinking about it i more than likely have it 180 out. ive been trying several different settings (via the damper) and tried lots of different settings with the distributor but to no avail it wont start. ive double/triple checked fuel and spark. does anyone have any ideas? also when i took out the number 1 spark plug to see if i had it at TDC i couldn't see anything aside from two pushrods. any help is thanks in advance.

btw its a 225 in my valiant.


Last edited by slantsixbob on Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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Location: North America
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That helical distributor drive pinion can whup even those of us who've removed and installed slant-6 distributors countless times. It can seem for all the world like everything's exactly where it's supposed to be, and yet the durn thing won't start! There are only 10(?) teeth on the pinion, so at times like these, I usually just remove the distributor hold-down bolt, note the position of the rotor, carefully pull the distributor out, very slightly turn the rotor clockwise and push the distributor back down, thus advancing it by one tooth. Snap the cap back on (don't bother with the hold-down bolt, as long as you can see the hold-down bolt hole in the block through the distributor hold-down plate), and crank the engine. If still nothing, advance the distributor one more tooth. Keep repeating this, and sooner or later you will get some activity under the hood. It'll likely start with a change in the starter sound — either the starter will struggle and hitch, or it'll spin faster as the engine "tries" to start, or maybe you'll get a "POOF!" spitback through the carburetor. Keep advancing the distributor a tooth at a time until the engine fires and runs. Advance it one more tooth to see if the engine runs better or worse. If better, leave it there. If worse, go back one tooth. Then reinstall the hold-down bolt loosely, set your timing by the normal procedure with a timing light, and tighten down the bolt.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:33 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Location: salem oregon
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much appreciated dan, i will give this a whirl tomorrow :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:32 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Hamilton the STEEL CITY, ON
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What i do in the worst-case scenario, if the timing mark on the crank pulley cannot be trusted, is to remove the rocker cover and the #1 sparkplug, and rotate the engine until the piston reaches top dead center with both valves closed. you can track the movement of the piston by inserting the dipstick in the sparkplug hole and feeling its movement. there will be a point where you have leeway in both directions with the piston at the top: to nail the timing further, position the rotor so its at-rest position is pointing in the direction of #1 distributor tower, about where the indexing notch in the housing is cut, then rotate the housing until the points just start to close, or in the case of electronic ignition, where the pickup rotor just begins to align with the spurs of the pickup coil. this will bring the timing close enough so that it can be started and fine-tuned. Note the rotation of the rotor when cranking to establish the beginning point of contact. if your engine still does not start, you have other problems.

like valve timing.

most often caused by improper installation of the timing chain.

let us know what happens.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:00 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Location: salem oregon
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thanks for all the help, i did what dan said and after a few minutes blam! shes running. i am sooooo happy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:56 pm 
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well the next day when i went to start it up again just to be sure. it poofed out the carb once and wouldn't start no matter what i did. THOR came by earlier and we set the timing dead on via the damper, rocker arms etc. and it wouldn only spark some of the time. so now I'm waiting to re charge the battery (trickle) and while its doing that im going to pull out all my plugs to make sure they aren't fouled in some kind of way. aside from that i got a couple questions. the original dist i had in before the gear had exploded on me. could this have caused some kind of surge to go back through and somehow partially fry my coil? im just curious if there are any other ideas. thanks for any help again.

~Slantsixbob


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:09 pm 
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"Poofed out the carb" means you've got spark happening at the wrong time. You're still not on the right distributor pinion tooth.

No, there was no back-surge that partially fried the coil.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:31 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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alright. didnt think the coil doing that was too likely :S ill keep trying to change the pinion tooth until it fires correctly. ill post if anything else changes/works.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:38 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:17 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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I fought with this on a Ford Falcon Six, using a timing light method, pull-#1-plug-an-feel-for-TDC-while-watching-the-valve-to-make-sure-was-compression-stroke, curse-and-pray methods... no rhyme or reason to get it to fire. I'm ordering a new crank pulley before I touch it again, so that I can precisely dial in the timing.

With the blown-up plastic dizzy gear, hopefully the chunks are in your oil pan instead of around the cam teeth... if there's no obstruction (nylon bits), then examine your crank pulley to ensure the mark hasn't slipped.

This problem made me crazy all summer... couldn't drive. I'm expecting the same issues when I try to fire my 225 the first time...

Good luck.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:42 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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yea the bits are in the oil pan, im pretty sure, i can't feel any of them near the hole with he dizzy out. ill have to price a timing light sometime tomorrow if i don't get her going


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:53 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Hamilton the STEEL CITY, ON
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slantsixbob wrote:
ill have to price a timing light sometime tomorrow if i don't get her going


thats a good idea. how have you been trying several different settings (via the damper) without one?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Location: salem oregon
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ive done a few, mostly been doing dist settings, and had damp at 5 deg before TDC. going to try different settings. and call the part store to see if i can get a semi decent timing light.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:37 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:17 pm
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Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Car Model:
use some chalk to mark TDC on the pulley... not where the notch is, but where the piston is at TDC. It would be nice to find that your crank pulley hasn't slipped, and you just mark the notch. Timing lights are cheap... they don't need to be fancy at all for these things. $20 probably.
slantsixbob wrote:
ive done a few, mostly been doing dist settings, and had damp at 5 deg before TDC. going to try different settings. and call the part store to see if i can get a semi decent timing light.

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sasktrini, Saskatoon, SK, Canada

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'68 Fargo A-100 Van, 225, A727, 8 3/4" rear axle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:56 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:45 pm
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Location: Hamilton the STEEL CITY, ON
Car Model:
do not crank your engine more than five to ten seconds at a time. if it does not start, it will not start until you find out why. if you cannot resist cranking and cranking for minutes at a time, pull the plugs because the engine is flooded (if you are getting fuel) and won't start even if you repair the problem.

static timing the engine is not adequate for a final setting. you should not have disturbed the distributor without one at the ready. you guys need to slow down and plan your work through. get a timing light, and a multimeter, now. we will teach you how to use them if need be.

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I've been calling it as i see it for my entire life and that's not about to change. Take it or leave it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:54 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:44 pm
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Location: salem oregon
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yea, im not cranking her that long, if i get no go then i let off. it will be a couple days until i get a chance to work on it again. possibly not until the weekend. thanks everyone for your help/input i appreciate it alot!


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