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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:52 am 
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That's my initial reaction as well but I thought maybe I'm just being difficult and unrealistic. If I turbocharge the motor using the 2 bbl manifold I guess I leave a lot on the table as far as breathing?

Would a cam and 4 bbl setup still be required to properly turbocharge the motor?

I'd still be using the stock exhaust manifold. Is the super six exhaust manifold any bigger than what's found on a stock 1 bbl motor? Can't seem to get to the bottom of that question. No where can I find it on print but I've been told it is larger.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:57 am 
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Is the super six exhaust manifold any bigger than what's found on a stock 1 bbl motor?


No the manifold is the same as the 1 barrel....just the exhaust pipe changes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:25 pm 
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If I were to turbocharge a motor with a carb, I would definitely use a Holley 500 2bbl for simplicity. You can make 250-300HP with that no problem and you will have fewer headaches than trying to get 4bbls to work properly, especially if you are going to do significant street driving.

Lou

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:31 am 
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Hi guys. I hope everyone is well. Been gathering parts. I'm ready to order my cam. I have my manifold, fitech injection unit, bouchillon cable and bracket kit, remflex manifold gasket and headers. I'm almost ready to pull the head and send it to the machine shop and send my cam to Oregon cam grinders..

So my first question is:

Where do I get the oversize valves from and exactly what size or part number?

My second question is two part and is directed first at Lou and then anyone else that can help shed light on the cam selection process.

What are the cam specs that you mention above with the specs similar to the to the KV-1 and the chevy type lobes? It sounds like you were fairly happy with it.

I'm putting nitrous on it so I want to make sure the cam I select works with the nitrous as well. I know there are qualities that nitrous prefers. I'm just not sure how to figure out how to get there.

I want an aggressive sounding lumpy cam. With the FITECH FI unit they recommend not going below 110 lobe separation (did I phrase and use that right?)

I really don't understand how to tweak the different numbers to get to the desired end goal and would really appreciate a simple explanation that I can use figure this or on my own.

Would love some cam recommendations and the rationale behind the choice. Would also love to know what personally is working for you.

To recap where I'm at, I'm shooting for 10:1 compression, running it on super with a can of octane booster, gearing depends on what I find. Would like to swap in an 8.8 ford rear. They come with 3.27, 3:55 (which if I found I may use the stock trans as well with a shift kit and 3k stall speed converter or 3:73 and 4:10 which if I find I'll go with an OD trans. I'm wondering if 4:10 is too hi. Will my engine run out of gear or rpm. Bottom end is stock for now so 5k -5500 is my max rpm.

Also what is ideal manifold temperature to avoid the cold weather issues and atomization problems? I'm putting an electric heating pad directly under the carb floor on my hyperpak.

This is a street car but I still want it to have a bad attitude and a little bit of gas mileage. Though I'm not overly concerned with mileage I don't want it to be a complete pig. I want it to sound and appear to be a race car while in reality being a safe and reliable street car.

Thank you in advance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:02 am 
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Hi Bill,

OK, I read up on N2O cams and it looks like they want more exhaust duration and less overlap relative to a NA cam. The 225 usually likes more int duration due to the weak intake port flow, so I think a "square" (even I/E duration) would be a good compromise for NA and nitrous use.

110 is too much LSA for a 225. As most others (and I) have found, 104-106 works best for a NA motor with a healthy cam. So, I would recommend 108 deg to give you a little more advantage w/nitrous while not hurting NA performance too much.

Here are two cams that are very similar to what I ran in my 64 Dart with 10:1 comp and 3000 (1st one) and 3400 (2nd one) stall torque converter.

deg (I/E) deg @ 0.050" lift (I/E) overlap, overlap @0.050"
288 288 250 250 108 0.494 0.494 72 34 #34 lobes from Oregon Cams
294 294 248 248 108 0.525 0.525 78 32 #1559 lobes from Oregon Cams

These should be quite similar to KV-1, and will be lumpy cams and require idle at 800-1000 RPM. 10:1 static compression minimum. Suggest 3200-3500 stall converter for street/strip. I advise getting a 9.5" converter from Midwest or Edge and spend time on the phone to describe what you are doing.

You used to be able to get "engnbldr" 1.70/1.44 stainless valves off Ebay, but maybe he is not doing that anymore? For the #34 cam you might get away with 340 V8 type springs, but the #1559 cam will require something with more travel. SI Valves in same size might be available. I have used SB Chev 1.72/1.50 valves and those work well and are 0.100" longer to allow more valve travel. Lots of options, and it pays to think through this carefully.

Please ask more questions to refine this.

Perhaps others will have more concrete thoughts on valves and springs. I bought up some engnblr valves and 340 springs 5-8 yrs ago and so have not had to buy any for my last 2-3 head buildups.

Happy building,

Lou

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 Post subject: Not right...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:43 pm 
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With the FITECH FI unit they recommend not going below 110 lobe separation (did I phrase and use that right?)


I read the manual they had on line at lunch today and they don't have a recommendation like that... but you have 4 "cam" setting levels based on the vacuum the cam will produce... (I almost would say you could call them, "stock", RV Cam, Performance, and Race Only...)

The documents look like the FiTech team set the system up so a person who knows exactly how the motor would run with a 4 barrel Carb could input the basic values and let 'er rip...

I also like how they say it's a self tuning system, but if you are building something outside the box, you will have to manually input some of the values including your accelerator pump shot, enrichment at certain temps for warm up, etc....

I would suppose that the reason someone might think they need the wider LSA is to smooth out the idle so the self contained throttle body system doesn't 'freak out' trying to keep a street car tamed with a cam that only makes 8" HG in drive.... and the self tuning wouldn't take as long to learn...

But that's my 2 cents in understanding how this works....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:30 am 
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DI

The recommendation of not going below 110 lobe separation was given verbally over the phone from one of their techs. I was told that low vacuum was not ideal for the FITech unit.

Does that mean the cams that Lou recommended with a LS of 108 would work will with this system?

What cam specs would you recommend given what I'm using and my desired objectives?

How do the different cam specs affect the final result?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:00 am 
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Thank you Lou.

I contacted Engnbldr through Ebay and evidently, at 73, he's retired and no longer making them.

Were both of those cam choices street driven cars?

Which one did you like better and why?

Is going with the 3200-3400 stall speed ok on the street? I'm not familiar with hi stall speed converters and how they behave in street driven vehicles. Is there any reason not to run that hi a stall speed in a street car? Do I need an external tranny cooler?

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1966 Dodge Coronet Deluxe 2dr sedan

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II 2dr hdtp

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Last edited by B Body Bill on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:10 am 
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I recommended those cams for your specific application, so yes, 108 LSA. FITECH doesn't know squat about 225 motors, so buyer beware. One cam has higher lift and one doesn't. They will behave almost identically to each other and to the cam I had in my 64 Dart for 10 yrs. I have a slightly bigger one now (255 @ 0.050) and will probably go back to a smaller one. Either will work, but you have to be careful about valve/spring choice and travel. For simplicity, I would run the #34 with stock length valves. Yes, I ran that on a 10:1 comp street car on pump gas with a 3400 converter and it pulled about 10 in Hg at idle of about 8-900 RPM. The converter will feel looser than stock but not crazy loose (to MY taste). You say you want to go fast, so 3400 is about where I would run it. If you want a bit less looseness and a bit worse off the line jump, then go with a 2800-300 converter and it will be less slippy on the street.

There really are so many variables here that you really just need to try something and see how you like it. You may want to find someone to visit who has a car setup like this so you can get a ride and see how it feels. If you are nervous about the car being too radical, then please go with a smaller cam and converter. I can give you something with 230-240 deg @ 0.050" and that will be tamer and you can run a 3000 or lower converter.

I am just making recommendations, and everyone's tastes are different.

All the best,

Lou

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:49 am 
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I agree on having to start somewhere just to get a basis in which to compare to. I tend to like my street cars aggressive. I've been disappointed before with not going with a big enough cam with an automatic transmission. In looking back I'd have been much happier had I gone with a higher stall speed and larger cam.

Nothing exciting about swapping in too small a cam. That's what happens when you have others make choices for you. I'm not really sure what happens as those cam specs are moved up or down. Is there some simple reading material I should study that'll give me some easy to understand cam theory?

What are the specs on the bigger cam that you're probably swapping out to go back to the smaller cam? Why are you not happy with that cam? Which of the aforementioned cams are you going back to or are you going with a different cam?


I'd like the car to jump off the line so I'll definitely look at the 3200 to 3500 range converters. I don't mind a little looseness from the converter as long as it's still streetable. If it's not a little crazy it doesn't really excite me. Let's face it that's why we do this stuff. I guess I'll dial that in as I get closer to having my motor done.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:09 am 
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Valves info:

http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... ght=valves

I have too many people asking me questions about cams and EFI right now (here and via PMs and phone), so I'll respond to your Q's when I get a chance. Basically, I feel I can get a little more low end and better MPG with a slightly smaller cam and more low RPM pull on the autoX/roadcourse. We'll see.

Lou

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Thank you very much. I really appreciate the help

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:08 pm 
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On the street you are much better off spraying witn an "N/A" cam than trying to run a nitrous cam N/A.

Also, hitting the motor with a 150 shot on the line will tend to loosen up your converter 3-400 rpm.

If you can find one, I use the old Clifford '300' cam. It worked very well N/A and absolutely loved the sauce.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Glad to see Dennis chime in! Mr. Nitrous and big cam himself...

Lou

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 Post subject: Yep...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Quote:
Is there some simple reading material I should study that'll give me some easy to understand cam theory?


About 20 years ago, there was one of those enthusiast books that Hot Rod magazine put out that put all of their cam articles together under one cover, it covers the general reaction on an engine build when you advance or retard the cam, tighten or widen the LSA, etc....

Quote:
The recommendation of not going below 110 lobe separation was given verbally over the phone from one of their techs. I was told that low vacuum was not ideal for the FITech unit.


Spending another lunch period today looking over the FAQ and some of the common tech posts... I learned that the system has 4 cam settings:

"Cam selection is based on vacuum load of the engine. Cam 1 is for 15Hg or above, Cam 2 is for 10Hg to 15hg, Cam 3 is 8Hg to 10Hg, Cam 4 is 8Hg to 6Hg. These are estimates and you may need to switch between them if the vacuum load is between two different cam settings to get the engine to run better for your application."


I almost suspect that the high vacuum would be more closed loop for street and MPG use and the low vacuum settings are more open loop and for race only and not really street cars...to keep the system from constantly hunting.

That being said, they also comment that the unit it calibrated for a stock Chevy 350 out of the factory, so you may have to disable the self learn with a lumpy cam 225 and hand program the variables....

I also notice that some models have integral nitrous control and the base model does not....


Just some observations...


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