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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:18 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 am
Posts: 318
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Car Model: 1966 Dodge Dart
Killer6 wrote:
I think MSM meant that as an OE head, Mopar may have intended to use a special piston to generate a -0- deck at the squish pad, and enough dish to have the same cyl.volume...thereby ensuring if somebody scrapyardf the new head it wouldn't jack the squeeze on say the '68 3/4 ton 4x4 . As far as modern engines goes, most of these are Al-U-minimum, 4-valve headed, & the cam timing is actually -0- overlap... Yet take a new 2.5L Hyundai 4cyl....192hp NA, & 13:1 squeeze. On pump regular...try that out!


Correct - my guess is that they decided to develop the head and pistons as a combo that were optimized to work together, but would allow mixing and matching the heads and pistons to avoid something like the scenario with Cadillac V8s where the wrong combo could end up giving you compression in the 6:1s or 12:1s. The advantage I could see for the factory is that they'd only need to stock one sort of service replacement and wouldn't need to keep multiple parts on hand.

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Matt Cramer
1966 Dodge Dart turbo / EFI project


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:34 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
Charrlie_S wrote:
StrokerScamp wrote:
Charrlie_S wrote:
I would be interested in seeing how that head would work on a 170 (factory zero deck spec.) and a .022 shim gasket.
I'm havin fun and that's all that matters, right? Next time you're up, I should have a hot 225 in it and we can go for a cruise.

I'll hold you to that


Good. We'll sure do it. Maybe we can go get some ice cream at the Dairy Queen in Gray. That'd be fun.

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Rob

It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:17 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
Richie said it took only .010" to clean it up. That's a blessing on a long inline six head. They normally take more than that. As you can see, he's also starting to fit the 318 valves as well. Wasting no time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnBL27FdjT0

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:40 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:42 pm
Posts: 129
Car Model:
Wow, interesting piece StrokerScamp. Thanks for sharing all of the pics and info. That part was right in my neck of the woods, too.

I have a set of 915 casting closed chamber big block heads from '67. Not rare or special, but Ma had certainly played with that chamber shape in the past.

It will be interesting to see how this engine of yours runs.

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1970 Plymouth Duster
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:57 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
Got the 318 valves installed in the head. Figured out the valve spring height. Going to setup at 1.8". Dropping the head of at the head porter probably Wednesday. Will update with pictures when it's done.

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:51 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
My porter has the head and it should be ready before too long. Will update with pictures and flow sheets.

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:25 pm 
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Guru
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:22 am
Posts: 3740
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Car Model: Many Darts and a Dacuda
StrokerScamp wrote:
Got the 318 valves installed in the head. Figured out the valve spring height. Going to setup at 1.8"...

Be sure to check the rocker arm pad to valve stem tip contact pattern with longer valves installed at the 1.8 height.
You will likely be on the "heel" of the arm's contact pad and on the inner edge of the stem tip.
The longer valve stems can be helpful when running high lift cams but usually needs to be re-centered / adjusted when running lifts under .500
DD


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:28 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
Doctor Dodge wrote:
StrokerScamp wrote:
Got the 318 valves installed in the head. Figured out the valve spring height. Going to setup at 1.8"...

Be sure to check the rocker arm pad to valve stem tip contact pattern with longer valves installed at the 1.8 height.
You will likely be on the "heel" of the arm's contact pad and on the inner edge of the stem tip.
The longer valve stems can be helpful when running high lift cams but usually needs to be re-centered / adjusted when running lifts under .500
DD


Yup. I've been in touch with Mike at B3 racing engines and given him the necessary measurements for the rocker shaft relocation shims. And yes, it's a pretty big difference in valve length. On the order of .300" longer, I believe.

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:51 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
Got the head back today. Jerry did an awesome job on it.


Attachments:
CLOSED CHAMBER PORTED2.jpg
CLOSED CHAMBER PORTED2.jpg [ 111.19 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
CLOSED CHAMBER PORTED1.jpg
CLOSED CHAMBER PORTED1.jpg [ 104.05 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]
CLOSED CHAMBER PORTED.jpg
CLOSED CHAMBER PORTED.jpg [ 102.08 KiB | Viewed 3049 times ]

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:56 pm 
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Supercharged

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 3805
Location: Indianapolis
Car Model:
Rob, can you post the flow numbers? I would like to see the whole range, not just the big lift numbers.
Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:04 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
DadTruck wrote:
Rob, can you post the flow numbers? I would like to see the whole range, not just the big lift numbers.
Thanks.


Sure. I was just coming back to do that. The first sheet is after and the second is before. Keep in mind, these numbers are without any back cuts on the valves at all. Just a single 45. Also this is without the valve seats retouched. Both of which will add a bit more flow, once I get that done. Jerry said this head was the hardest iron head he's ever seen. Said it has a very high nickle content because it was constantly showering sparks the entire time. This is the last iron head he said he'll ever do.


Attachments:
CLOSED CHAMBE AFTER PORT FLOW.jpg
CLOSED CHAMBE AFTER PORT FLOW.jpg [ 105.57 KiB | Viewed 3034 times ]
CLOSED CHAMBER BEFORE PORT FLOW.jpg
CLOSED CHAMBER BEFORE PORT FLOW.jpg [ 109.9 KiB | Viewed 3034 times ]

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:03 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2798
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
Probably said out of frustration. Surprised at the single angle valve job, everyone and their brother who has ever done head work says at least a 3 angle valve job is essential with some telling you that you gotta go 5 angle.
If that head is so hard, that much nickel content, (almost) sounds like stainless.
Being as how that head is so hard, I doubt you'd need to add hardened seats then.
The ones that I have been messing with had minimal sparks when grinding, and the material peeled away alot faster than I would have expected.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:29 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
volaredon wrote:
Probably said out of frustration. Surprised at the single angle valve job, everyone and their brother who has ever done head work says at least a 3 angle valve job is essential with some telling you that you gotta go 5 angle.
If that head is so hard, that much nickel content, (almost) sounds like stainless.
Being as how that head is so hard, I doubt you'd need to add hardened seats then.
The ones that I have been messing with had minimal sparks when grinding, and the material peeled away alot faster than I would have expected.


I'll never add hardened seats to anything as light as this Valiant or anything that doesn't spend the majority of it's life towing or hauling heavy loads. They are much less important than people think.

Oh and it has about ten angles on the seats. Was done with an almost new rottler. That will get touched up in a few days along with the valves getting a 30 and 15 added to smooth out the transition.

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:52 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:53 am
Posts: 135
Car Model:
volaredon wrote:
Probably said out of frustration. Surprised at the single angle valve job, everyone and their brother who has ever done head work says at least a 3 angle valve job is essential with some telling you that you gotta go 5 angle.
If that head is so hard, that much nickel content, (almost) sounds like stainless.
Being as how that head is so hard, I doubt you'd need to add hardened seats then.
The ones that I have been messing with had minimal sparks when grinding, and the material peeled away alot faster than I would have expected.


I don't know.....I don't think that it was frustration. I think it was "tired of cast iron". I asked him about doing another slant six head for me over a year ago. He said then he wasn't doing cast iron anymore, but that since he had done one for me in the past and like them because they were something different, he'd do another one when I was ready. I've been keeping in touch with him ever since....he is a friend too after all. Then I came across the closed chamber head. I was just going to take him one of my nicer stock cores, but since I got this one, I took it instead and it turned out really nice. This is going to be a cool build with the closed chamber and solid roller cam.

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Rob



It is enough that Jesus died and that he died for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:51 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Houston
Car Model: 68 Valiant
It's interesting that the exhaust side is a more responsive port than the intake. On the intake, it's pretty much all done by .400 lift.


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