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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 8:04 pm 
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Supercharged
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So this has been asked over and over again, but in my opinion no one has done a really good job of documenting what is needed or the parts they used with part #'s on how to accomplish this swap.

First of all there are folks that have done this swap successfully into slant cars for years, I will first share some links to their documentation. These folks are helping me to do my swap, however the information is scattered about on the forum here and it's a bit of a treasure hunt to find it all.

Links to source Info:

In no particular order...
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=45975
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3874
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14969
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=41775
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=42988
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=42602
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=34077

Okay, enough with the prerequisite information. Look at those links and if you read and study enough you probably do not even need this post.

Here are the problems you will run into and need to address. I will give photo documentation as well as part numbers as I go along. Some parts will be bespoke, some will need to be fabricated etc. I will give measurements, etc. as I can.
Once I get the whole shebang completed I will put all of the parts needed into a quick summary or edit here!

*1---Donor Transmission
Get yourself a Ford T5 transmission from something that is ~1984-2004. Exact year is not important.

** The Ford 5.0 / V8 Probably works the best for this swap and has ideal racing ratios **
I used a Ford Mustang 3.8L V-6 version which is perfectly acceptable but has a longer throwout bearing support. Some Lathe work will be required on the input bearing support to make it fit. Also the ratios are a bit wider. OIther than that this trans will also work.
Make sure the trans you select works and has all the typical good used transmission mojo going on, or buy a brand new Ford Performance one from Summit..
Ford Performance Parts Super-Duty T-5 Transmissions M-7003-Z
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms- ... /make/ford
The trans should have a 1 1/16" (1.0625)" Ø x 10 Spline Input shaft. The trannies that have the 0.670"Ø pilot bearing size are probably a bit more easy to work with in this regard.

Image

The trans will have a 28 spline slip yoke output shaft. I bought a slip yoke new, or you can get one from a Ford Ranger, etc., at the junk yard. Lots of Ford products seem to have used that 28 spline output from Dana / Spicer over the years.
Slip Yoke Info - 2-3-4871X
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdh-2-3-4871x

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*2--- Clutch / Pressure Plate Considerations
There are a number of options here. Back in the beginning of the century we used to call up McLeod and they would sell you what you needed. I am not sure if that is the case any more. I am not posting bespoke McLeod Part #'s as they tend to die away and then you are stuck doing all the legwork again.

I would suggest getting the best clutch / pressure plate you can for the '87-88 Ford Thunderbird Turbocoupe. This is a commonly available clutch disk or kit from a number of outlets (I will not be using this exact part in my conversion but it's what I suggest for you).
These kits have an 8 7/8" - 9 1/4" Ø disk with the 1 1/16" x 10 spline hub.
https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... n_9-125-in
I would get a dual friction disc if possible. It has Kevlar type buttons or pucks on one side and an organic facing on the other. They are made by Centerforce, Spec, Exedy, South Bend, RAM, Zoom, LuK, etc.

Image

*** If you go this route with the clutch kit I suggest you will need to have your flywheel drilled to use this Ford Turbo clutch cover. Take the pressure plate and your flywheel to a local competent machine shop and have this done.

You also can just try using a stock Slant 6 9" pressure plate and cover, specifically if you have the clamp load set higher by a clutch rebuilder.

*3---Throw out Bearing
If you can, start with a car that has 3 pedals from the factory. If not you can use an automatic car for your project, but you have to swap the pedal box and then decide if you want to collect all the linkages or use a hydraulic TOB. If I were doing this swap into an automatic trans donor car/truck then I would use the hydraulic TOB.
I am documenting this with the 'ma MoPar linkage setup for now. I will edit later, because I will probably have to go to a hydraulic TOB when I put headers on my car.


If you want to run your stock or stockiish Mopar clutch fork, then use this throwout bearing or equivalent. The part is listed for say a 1969 Charger with the Hemi engine and an A833 which has the 18 spline input shaft. The 18 spline A833 also a larger sliding collar for the TOB.
Get a National DP1625C or equivalent. Commonly found on Rock Auto, Summit etc.
Image

Comparison between the Stock 1"x 23 Spline Common Chrysler TOB and the 18 Spline Hemi / T5 Bearing
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T5 / Ford TOB I.D. = ~1.441"Ø
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****

OE Chrysler Car Trans 1960's - 1980's TOB I.D. = ~1.257"Ø fits almost all manual trans's of the era except for the 18 Spline HEMI / 440 6Bbl A-833 Trans.
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Another Part of the The Throw out Bearing setup is the Clutch Linkage and Fork if you choose to use it.. I did in this install.
This Linkage was in a Narrow A Body (64 Dart) Some of these Modifications may not be needed if installing in a 67-76 A body, or F body etc.

First I needed to Get the Geometry of the clutch fork correct; so I grafted the 64 Rod end adjuster onto the Overdrive Bellhousing's Clutch fork:
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The Trick is to get the Whole setup square.
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Next I made sure that the clutch Z bar was located correctly.. this required adding some metal to the Bell Housing Ball Stud support.

Here it is in stock form.. to line up with the OD Bell I had to clock it differently and only one hole Lined up..
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Add Material to make the alignment with the OD Bell more stable.
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*4---Bellhousing:
You will need to get an adapter Plate Made for your Bellhousing to accept the Bearing retainer of the T-5 Trans and also this adapter Plate will allow the transmission to bolt up to the bellhousing.
These are readily available for other platforms;
https://www.hotrodworks.com/product-cat ... -adapters/
but not for the slant, so one needs to be made locally or Check with Wilcap,
http://www.wilcap.com/
I am sure they will whip one up for you too.
** There was a Group Buy for Modified Bellhousings that went on about 15 years ago that Makes this swap a heck of alot more straightforward. (I will be using one in my project)

Here is a pictorial Description of what you will be doing or need to get made.
**Start By getting one of the 1976-1987 F Body, D series Truck or B series Van OD Bell Housings. They are readily Available on the internet, Junk yards, Swap meets etc. The Bellhousing will be Aluminum and have a 5.125"Ø Bearing Retainer Opening it will have multiple bolt patterns to accept Chrysler 3 speeds, A833'e etc.

Here is a comparison of one of the Group Buy Bells (it's on the Left. Steel Adapter Plate Added to it.) and the same Bell with Sam P.'s Aluminum Plate Grafted on... Same Idea Different execution.
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Group Buy Adapter Plate:
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Group buy Bell inside..
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Sam's Adapter (a Little Less Refined but works)
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Finally you need to Indicate the Bell housing to the Crankshaft.
Image
This will keep the trans Shafts quiet and will allow better longevity due to not putting excess wear on the bearings. This process is well documented all over the internet and youtube so I am not going to excessive depth to cover the process here.
Many of the offset Dowels available for this process are the wrong size by Being +0.004" too large.
You can buy the correct ones here:
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/dowels.html
I got essentially the same parts from summit racing, but they are .500" so I had to futz with both sides of the pin on the lathe with a file and 220 Grit emery cloth to dial them back to .496"
Summit Racing Parts:
SUM192004
SUM192007
SIM192008

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*5---Crankshaft Pocket / Input Bearing Interface:
Get one of these Mustang / Ford Pilot Bearing Assembly's : Timken FC68329 or equivalent (for use with that 0.670"Ø Input Shaft)
Image
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*Depending on what Slant 6 Crank you have.. get an Adapter Ring Made like this.. It allows the Small register slant Crank or Large Register Slant crank to use the Bearing Package in this documentation. I will put a technical drawing together later on and post it.

Large Pocket Crank: (1968-1987) Production Cranks:
Input Bearing adapter Ring
OD = ~1.817
ID = ~1.378
Depth = ~1" ( can me milled down if your Input shaft on the Trans is Longer)

The Whole Shebang gets Pressed into the adapter straightaway out of the box! Easy.
Image

Large Pocket Ring Adapter OD:
Image

Large Pocket Ring Adapter ID:
Image

Depth for Small pocket or Large Pocket Adapters:
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Small Pocket Crank: (1960-1967) Production Cranks:
Input Bearing adapter Ring Info.. More steps than the Big Pocket Crank
Press the Small bearing out of the metal housing that came in the Timken Box Pictured above.
Image

Result after pressing Little Bearing out of the Outer Housing for Fords..... Hang onto the innner needle Bearing assembly.
Image

Dimensions..
OD = ~1.555"
ID = ~0.938"
Depth = ~1" ( can me milled down if your Input shaft on the Trans is Longer)

Small Pocket Ring OD:
Image

Small Pocket Ring ID:
Image

Press it Home..(The one on the Right Side in the Picture Below)
Image

*6---Trans Tunnel / Upper Lower Cross members
Most Likley you or someone you pay or direct is going to do some fabirication here.
*** For the lower crossmember / Transmission support I started with the my stock 64 Dart's(or whatever chassis you are working with) original part that was designed for the 904 or 3 speed trans. I had to mock up the trans at the correct angle - to do this I marked the space above the trans and started cutting the upper cross member and sheet metal until I had is correct with the jack holding it in the correct location:
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Cutting the Upper Crossmember:
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Slice all the way through.. I saved this piece as I re used it just about 2.5" higher and ~ 0.75" forward.
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Also had to cut some more clearance into the under structure.. in this shot trans was siting too low. the mounting "ears" needed to occupy the same space as some of the cross member.... Your trans / Chassis combo may or may not need to do these windows.
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Here are the Clearance windows after I had cut, then added metal back to it:
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Clearance cut for the front of the trans.. I just flipped it up.. not cut all the way across.
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***Once all of that is figured out you can start to mock up / cut modify the stock lower trans support:
This is what I started with, however I needed to mock it many times and keep making the mount support lower to get everything correct.
Image

This is what I ended up with.. It's a but fuzzy in this picture.. But The Trans mount I used needed to be about 0.75" lower than where the Stock Mopar Mount would have sat for my car.
Image

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Once all of that mock up is done and you have the trans located where it and you are happy then weld or rebuild the upper X member. I used that piece that I saved for the upper part and Used 1/8" plate to connect it together.
Image

Finish up the sheet metal work , put the load back on the torsion bars and you should be set!
Image

*7---Driveshaft / U Joints

You will have to Mock up the Trans, Bellhousing etc to get a Driveshaft Measurement.
I set the Rear axle at Ride Height and measured from the center of the Slip yoke to the center of the Rear axle yoke. My Driveshaft Shop Made me a new Driveshaft that Has 1310 Weld Yokes on it, Uses a Standard 1310 U Joint up front, and has a conversion U joint at the Axle.
The rear u joint converts the 1310 Driveshaft to the Small Mopar 7260 at the Axle.
Part # for this U Joint is: Spicer Dana 5-788X
If you are using some other yoke or rear axle then work with your driveshaft shaft shop to get it figured out.

28 Spline Yoke / 1310 X 1310 at the front of the driveshaft.
Image


1310 x 7260 At the Rear Axle.
Image


*8---Speedometer Cable / Sensor Considerations
There are a few options here..
1. GPS Speedometer:
No sensors, calibration or cables... Change Tire sizes, Rear Gear Ratios Etc and it's always correct and no futzing with it once you are setup.
2. Electronic Sensor / Electronic / Hot Rod Speedo:
Lots of support for this on Speedway, Jegs, Summit Racing etc. ( I will be trying this on my build as I want to Keep my Dart's Original Gauges for now. so I am going to get a Signal from the 2000 T5 Trans that will drive a box.. That Box will mechanical spin the OE 1964 Speedo. Not cheap for what it is but we'll see how it goes.
3. Modified O.E. type cable Speedo:
(Probably the Most Difficult to setup and get right) Requires a T5 with an actual Speedo Drive gear (older Transmissions Probably 1990 or earlier? Not Verified Just a Guess.)


*9---Final Notes and Parts List
I do Need to compile a final parts list and Post it here.

I don't yet have a good part # on the Transmission mount.... Need to do some research there.

I got My swap finished up and It turned out very Nice. The V-6 Transmission is not the Ideal performance Transmission due to the wider ratios. I think at some point I might Spring for one of the the Ford Motorsport Z spec transmissions.

- One Last addition that I wanted to add was shifter / Bezel / Boot. In my build I wanted the 5 speed to have a stockish look, so I was able to come up with a long shifter out of my parts pile, Shimmed it 1" or so toward the driver, and Added a Lokar Ivory smaller 5 speed ball. (the OE 64 Dart 4 speed balls were even smaller).
- Then I added a stockish looking Shifter Boot and Ring from MDL. These are listed as Galaxie Falcon / Cobra, but fit the bill as stock 64 A Body Restoration style Boot / Be$el was overpriced for what I wanted.
Lokar 5 Speed Ivory Shift Ball: SK-6872
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-sk-6872
MDL - Modern Driveline Cobra/Galaxie/Falcon Shift Ring/Boot: MD-321-1068
https://www.moderndriveline.com/shop/sh ... -hardware/
Here are some Pics of the Final Trim work: The shifter is high and close to the wheel like an actual nascar or road race car.
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Some other good Resources to familiarize yourself with the platform and Identify the ratios you have.
https://www.moderndriveline.com/the-man ... of-the-t5/
http://mongosgarage.com/wp-content/uplo ... umbers.pdf


Hope this is helpful.
Greg

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Last edited by Greg Ondayko on Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:23 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:00 pm 
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Car Model: custom roadster
YES! I'm hoping to use a T-5 on the roadster build. This will be a very handy thread. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 2:29 am 
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Thanks for compiling all this info, Greg. Hopefully this will encourage some folks to go ahead. Nice to see the small crank hub adapters worked just like I thought.

Best,
Lou

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 2:36 am 
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Yes those adapter rings are nice. Thanks for thinking those out 15 years ago, Lou.


Greg

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:56 am 
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You betcha. Those milled flats make it easier to pull out too. If someone wanted to duplicate the adapter plate setup, I could lend out my spare bellhousing with plate. I will use it in the next year or two, to upgrade the 62 Valiant to the T5. The OD 4spd is OK, but man you miss that extra gear on the way to direct 1:1 drive... Seymour really wanted to try this 10 yrs ago, so it's time.

Lou

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:50 am 
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I also have an extra one.
I probably will use Sam P.'s bell as his plate was AL instead of steel... Lighter..
I will see if I can get the adapter plate drawn up for all to use or maybe if there is enough interest, Someone can start a separate T5 Group buy 2.0 thread and we'll hash it out there.


Greg

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:11 am 
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Greg Ondayko wrote:
I will see if I can get the adapter plate drawn up for all to use or maybe if there is enough interest, Someone can start a separate T5 Group buy 2.0 thread and we'll hash it out there.
It's about time for that. OEM manual transmissions are trending to be a historical relic.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 2:18 pm 
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Car Model: 1986 Mitsubishi Starion
I'm in the middle of bolting a T5 (96 Mustang V6) to a SlantSix (not going in to a car that ever came with either) and would love it if someone either made an adapter, or would let me use their part or drawing to have more made. I've got a machine shop lined up to do these, just need to get them a prototype part or work with them to prototype one. If I could skip that step, it would be a tremendous help. I've also reached out to Wilcap about making at least one flywheel. I'm sure it would be better to have them make multiple.

Greg or Lou, if you would be willing to let me use your extra, I'd be willing to pay a deposit for it, just so you could be sure to get it back.

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Last edited by slowquest on Mon May 25, 2020 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 2:20 pm 
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Also curious, what work was needed to be done to the aluminum bellhousing to work with the adapter? I seem to remember reading that the bellhousings needed to be sent out on the last groupbuy.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:49 am 
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Where are you located, slowquest? Probably it is best to just send you pics and dimensions.

I thought the most reliable way would be to attach the adapter plates to the bellhousing with locator dowels, and then do final machining. Thus, everyone sent me their bells, I carried them to a machine shop (back in NC when I lived there) and they built, installed, and final machined the plates. I would not do this again as it was a ton of work.

If you get Wilcap to do a run of alum flywheels, I am pretty sure I would be interested in buying one.

Lou

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 6:06 am 
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I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio

I was hoping for a 10" clutch, and if I remember correctly, the aluminum flywheel was only for a 9" clutch? I'm still waiting on a response from them.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:20 am 
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The wilcap flywheels we got that were made un AL were only able to support a 9-9.25"ø clutch.

If you want a 10 inch or larger clutch then a stock or McLeod flywheel
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48219
is needed or a different bell housing that will allow a v8 LA engine flywheel



Greg

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:23 am 
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Would be great if Wilcap can make the friction surface extend to 10". However, I have found that a good 9" clutch can handle up to 250 HP or so (high 13s in a 2900 lb car on fairly sticky tires - 1.8 60 ft). Those good 9" units can be hard to find, though. Let me think about lending my spare BH/plate... I am fixin' to use that, so not sure. Greg, are you thinking of making a CAD file for this thing?

Lou

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 10:22 am 
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I will be going with the billet steel Wilcap flywheel and the McLeod clutch/pressure plate.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:27 am 
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Dart270 wrote:
Greg, are you thinking of making a CAD file for this thing?

Lou


Yes I can, but it would be off in the future.

It also might be easier / better for someone to 3d scan / Faro arm it.

Greg

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