Lou,

The head is worth to me what my bid is, maybe a little more. If I end up with the head that's fine. If I'm just going to be a proxy for the reproduction effort that's fine too. If Doug's patterns are better we might as well use those. I'm sure they are better, but I still want an aluminum head if nothing new is produced.

Josh

I have a suggestion to no matter who ends up with the head:

please have the head CMM'd. that way the information will be digitally stored and you will always have a reference point. that information would be priceless to anyone wishing to produce this head on any scale.

(for those who do not know, a CMM machine is basically an inspection tool. if you are filmilair with CNC machines, its sort of the same thing, only instead of a cutting tool at the end of the head you have a sensor on a flexible tip. a robotic arm of sorts comes down into each opening and calculates its size by touching around its perimeter. they are capable of creating a 3-D drawing of the object. they can get into almost any nook and cranny and I have used them before on F-22 jet "components" I used to make. most of your better machine shops and inspection companies will have them. this would be an excellent tool to determine what shapes creates flow.)

A) cost: covered very well by frank raso. US$1=3.08 ballpark in AR$ so it's cost effective.

B)modling, dies and that stuff: I don't think it's possble to actually copy the head w/o destroying it, in addition to carefull blueprinting it and/or (better if and) have it CCM'd. Actually I know of one shop that does that and if I ever get to do something like this I'd get it CMM'd at my cost if there's no other people convinced that's better to have all the documentation on such a scarce piece

C)reserve price: just tonight e was talking with Dan and I mentioned that I was betting on a $1k - $1.5k reserve.

D)putting money upfront: don't think that's necessary. When I get pieces to work at even the most famous, reputable shops, they start working upfront just to get the chance to collect all the money over getting the job done. So far has worked for me and all the artisans that works that way. IE chrome jobs, you can leave all your bolts, grille, trims, motor covers like timing, valve covers, etc, your 2 bumpers and you py 100% when, this is the important part, you get your parts back and you're 100% satisfied with them.

E) foundrys down here are used to wind up prototypes into actual products. This foundry I was thinking of made all the tooling for dual 1 barrel OEM manifolds for Chrysler Fevre. Our valiant 3's and some 4's GT's had this manifold from the factory. I don't know if they participated or not, but they told me that the infamous heavy wall casting 906 slant six block (only made in argentina, for heavy duty applications like trucks) was winded up "on the go" with no blueprinting. You can overbore .120-.140 those special casting 906 blocks without performing sonic checks, or any other checks. With carefully recentering, some racers have got .160 over good for half a season. Some of them heavy blocks have been sleeved (wet sleeved and dry sleeved) up to .160 for sure, I think that more too but I have no real world documentation on that.

F) I'd pee in my pants for having a good way of providing aluminium heads for slant sixes. from this end or from anywhere in the world from wich e can have them done.

G)making a good /6 aluminium head is very interesting, but I wouldn't pay more than $1500 for that head. As foundries are "cheap" (compared to up there) so is CMMing and CNCing pieces, so with good blueprints from the Doctor Dodge, I'd go with investing my money over his knowledge and experience rather than to copycat a 25 years old head. He has been on this slanted things from way more time than any other people I know, and if he had success reproducing and improving the hyperpack manifold, and he came up with the dutra duals, I think he can have better ideas than emission-minded engineers.

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Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

Couldn't you check wall thicknesses (i.e. sonic check) when you CMM'ed it? From that, you could potentially have enough to build a 3D model for tooling, wouldn't you? I know you might be missing some info, but maybe that could be extrapolated.

Just a thought.

I'm interested, but unfortunately unable to donate. If I had the money, I would have even been willing to keep my mouth shut.

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'15 Chrysler 200S V6
'74 Duster 360, factory 4 speed car

CMM's can only check what they can reach. Basically, they just reach out and touch, following a program, and record where the feeler is when it touches. They don't do wall thicknesses well. Maybe at the openings ...
It would be nice to find the original datum points to position the piece accurately. Six points - three to define one plane, two for a second perpendicular plane, one for the third plane. Fixturing consistently is very important for consistent, accurate measurements.
You could get some wall thicknesses with an ultrasound machine.
Making flexible molds of the passages would also help in finding those shapes. Flexible, so they can be removed.

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"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

I'm gonna stay the heck out of the auction, other than watching it.
However, I'm willing to toss $100 toward getting this thing into production. (Sorry, severely limited budget.) I don't care if it's Doug's design(s), or a repop of this "stocker", I'd just like to see one in production. Yes, I'd be a "silent partner" just to see this kind of stuff out there for the getting, even if I can never afford to get a production piece.

Roger

Much as I figured. I guess what I was thinking was take a thickness reading at the same point as the CCM. Combine the two and you might have something.

I've been a CAD drafter/detailer for 15 years now, but I've never worked on any casting stuff, so I was just offering an idea.

Sure would like to see this thing fly.

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'15 Chrysler 200S V6
'74 Duster 360, factory 4 speed car

What a neat piece of history! I wonder how they snuck that out the back door? It would take a mighty big lunch box.

Since my slant won't be a race effort, I think a repro of this would be awesome for me. I don't know if I could cough up $1k for a finished part, but I'd have to get a $600 rough casting while available (if this happens).

Like GTS225, I don't have a lot of cash to throw at this on short notice, but if a few extra hundred dollars would put us over the top, I could go sell a kidney or something.

Also, I drive right through Sterling Heights every day, going to and from work. If the seller would allow, and some of the heavy hitters on this subject/effort would like, I can stop and see the part, inspect it, take digital photos, pick it up after the action for shipping...whatever. I'd be happy to help however I can. Just let me know.

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DynoDave
1970 Plymouth Duster
1972 Dodge Charger Rallye
1977 Chrysler Cordoba
WPC # 12304

I believe things like this are probably tossed out quite often. I have a machinist friend who lives near Detroit who acquired 4 new style Hemi blocks that had some kind of casting flaw. They were basically thrown in the dumpster in back of where he works.

I wouldn't mind having that chamber desigin in a cast iron head. It would really wake a sleepy slant six up.

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82 D150-225/727
02 Dakota-3.9/5 speed
87 GMC C7000-8.2 Detroit Diesel/5+2

Truth is... most of the racer's I talk with want a "new tech" SL6 head made in cast iron.
I did all my design work based on the shrink rate and strength of aluminum. I did leave the option open to change material into cast iron, with only minor casting pattern and core box adjustments needed to do so.
DD

... and a good one! There isn't any one tool that will do all the reverse engineering we're talking about. Your idea of building a 3D digital model is good, and more feasible with some of the PC programs available now.
Preserving what is there and sharing it digitally is the thing to do.
I suspect that anything coming out of this board would be a combination of high tech and brute force improvisation!

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"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

I went and looked at the auction again. One thing that bothers me about this is that the seller has zero feedback as a seller. All his feedback is as a buyer. Sure would hate for it to be a scam.

Something else I noticed. He said; "This is one of just a handful of aluminum Slant Six heads...Don't miss out !" Does that mean he has more than one?.....Hmmmmm.

Roger

Alright -my 2 cents. I'm NOT an expert so please forgive me if I have wacky ideas.

I agree with some others that it seems pointless to buy this 25 yo emmissions-minded piece of technology whenever something better could be made.

On the fordsix website some guys made an all new better aluminum bolt-on head for the ford "small block six" w/o molds or an actual aluminum head. Could we get people together to do the same?

All of the combustion chamber talk got me to thinking- could an aluminun hemi head be prodused for the slant? I know about the Aussie 6 hemi BUT if we are to improve the combustion chambers- can't we go ALL the way?

One thing about a hemi head. Do you want the intake or the exhaust manifold on the passenger's side? A good wedge head can make power on par with a hemi head. The GM LSx engines make comparable power to the new hemi.

For many folks a new aluminum head is a lot of money. Having to buy new manifolds or headers could easily make the conversion cost prohibitive.

Going "all the way" in my book would mean 4 valves/cylinder and at least one cam in the head.

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Joshua