Hello,

I'm not sure if this is under the right topic, so I apologize if it's not.
My father in law and I will be attempting our first ever restoration project hopefully in the next few months. Ever since I was a kid, I've wanted to own a Valiant. I can remember a couple of car nut friends always talking about the indestructibility of the Slant Six. I'm very new to this and do not have any sort of background in car maintanence, lingo, etc...

So I was wondering if you may have any suggestions or advice in my search for a car. Or what alterations or additions can be made to a Valiant. My father in law is a welder/machinist with mechanical experience, but I'm in charge of research. We're looking for something that will be fun to drive, unique to look at and with a little pep, but not a monster on the road. Sorry for the long post, but if you have any tips or advice, I would love to hear it.

thank you!

Hi there. Welcome on the board.

This what you're asking covers a lot of territory, from how to pick out a good project car on up through questions of technique and component/configuration selection. Much information on the latter questions has been posted to this board over the years, but before we get to that stage, you've got to find and get a car and acquire some basic knowledge.

First step: Buy the Peterson and Stockel books described and linked in this post. They will get you up to speed quickly and easily on how cars of the age range you're considering are put together and how they're best taken apart, repaired, and reassembled.

Second step: Find the car! Don't know what your budget looks like or how far you're prepared to travel to retrieve a car. When figuring out your budget in dollar terms, remember to include all those factors that add to the cost (buying the car, going to fetch it from wherever it is, buying the parts it needs, paying for refurbishment services you're not able or equipped to do yourself) as well as those factors that subtract from the cost (work you can do yourself so you needn't pay someone else)...then add a large margin of dollars you're not planning on spending (but will have to spend anyhow), because that's just how it works.

Keep in mind that with the exception of the occasionaly lucky screamin' deal that comes from happening to be in the right place at the right time, when buying an old car, the best case is that you will get what you pay for. In most cases, you will get less — that is, you'll discover additional work that needs done as you get into the repair and restoration process. This is just one of the facts of buying a car that's between two and five decades old rather than buying a guaranteed 3-year-old Honda Civic or something.

For any given level of any given aspect of car condition, you generally will spend less to buy good condition than to restore to good condition — especially where body/metalwork and interior trim are concerned. This is because cosmetic and structural restoration virtually always wind up costing significantly more and taking significantly more time than planned, even with careful and experienced planning.

Beyond that, what you spend now to buy a car in relatively better condition, you won't have to spend later in restoration. Conversely, what you don't spend now because you're buying a car in relatively worn/deteriorated/broken condition, you will have to spend later in restoration.

As the cars you're interested in get older and scarcer, your choices on this front grow narrower and narrower; if you've got your heart set on a particular car, eventually you will have to take what you can get. Nevertheless, some cars are not worth buying to repair at any price, because they are too far gone to save. Any mechanical or electrical parts can be refurbished or replaced, upholstery and trim can be replaced, exterior trim can be restored and rechromed, and of course sheetmetal can be repainted, but extensive structural rust or severe collision damage would put a car in the "unsavable" category.

In addition to budget and location questions, the other important thing to decide upfront is what exactly you're looking for. Valiant was only one of several very similar models put out by Chrysler, so your search could be as narrow as "A Canadian-market 1963 Valiant 4-door with automatic transmission", as wide as "A 1960-1976 Chrysler A-body (Dart/Valiant/Lancer/Duster/Demon/'64-'69 Barracuda)", or anywhere in between...and even at the wide end, you might find your options constrained that you have to open up the field and make it even wider to "A Chrysler product with a slant-6 engine". Check out the Wikipedia articles on "Plymouth Valiant", "Dodge Dart", "Dodge Lancer", "Plymouth Barracuda", "Dodge Aspen", and "Plymouth Volare" for a start, and put those same search phrases into Google Image Search, one at a time, to get an overview of what different models look like. Once you find some cars that catch your eye, post links here on the board and we can tell you about the car you're looking at and suggest appropriate search parameters.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Wow, thank you Dan for your reply, that definitely helps me know where to start. There aren't too many slant six vehicles kickin' around Alberta, I've seen several nice looking cars in California though

However I did find a 1964 Valiant drop top a few hundred Km's away. there weren't any other specs listed, so I'm not sure what's sitting under the hood. It does need a new roof and back window though. Any thoughts on the convertibles?

Everything Dan pointed out plus some.

Time=Money. No way around this. Depending on how you value your time it might just be cheaper to buy new parts or pay someone for those "junkyard" parts. Take whatever budget you have and double it...in fact, think about maybe tripling it! Most people that do "restoration" don't go full bore (frame off, body on a rotating jig, etc) but rather want a nice looking, reliable form of transportation that has some panache. Decide now what you want. Write down what your projects are going to be--watch out for "shipfitters disease", i.e. the tendency to fix just one more thing, etc... I have started with replacing a wheel cylinder only to replace the entire brake system (not a bad thing in my case though).

As far as finding a "good" car to start with Dan has pointed out a bunch of good stuff--spend more now and you will pay less later. It is always cheaper to fix mechanical stuff (up to a point) than it is to fix body issues. A good paint job will run into the thousands of dollars--new or rebuilt engines are cheaper than paint jobs.

Be patient--although the seller might try to tell you that this is a "one of a kind" car, trust me, it isn't. Millions were made and there are still many around. I would rather get on an airplane and fly somewhere to get the right car than buy a local POS.

Once you find your "baby" go after the following systems in this order, do NOT deviate from this list:

1. Brakes--engines are cool, paint is trick, but stopping is "sick." I would rather make my ride STOP than have it do ANYTHING else. Make certain your brakes are the best performing brakes you can put together--if that means a disc brake swap than do it. If it means installing power brakes than do that too. Old brake pipes=bad news, zinc coated plain steel brake pipes that are 30 plus years old are frightening--same for rubber brake hoses. Go check out places like www.inlinetube.com for nice stainless steel piping if that floats your boat. Regardless, there is plenty of information here on all that braking stuff...

2. Steering--only slightly after brakes I find steering to be somewhat useful. Steering generally includes front end parts (tie-rod ends, ball joints, etc) as well as steering boxes, shafts, etc.

3. Everything else--start with learning how your engine works, where its various parts are, etc, etc. A good tuneup is in order. Get some baseline performance "figures", see what your rig does now. Decide what you are after...if you want "heat on the street" that most likely means you build for lower end torque...Forget big HP numbers if you haven't played that game before, if you get wrapped up in big HP you might build an engine that is barely drivable around town.

Finally, do try to own at least TWO forms of transportation--I drive a D150 truck that hauls around "parts for the Land Rover" and I have a Land Rover that hauls around "parts for the D150." Nice to have something that is always running so you can make a parts run. A clean, climate controlled place to work is pretty handy too...

Above all have fun and walk away from it if your rig grows boots and starts kicking you in the rear. Come back to it later when you are done cursing. Buy penetrating oil in bulk and use it before you turn a wrench on anything.

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Slanted D150

Yeah, I'm a transplant to Ontario (from Denver by way of Oregon, which was even more old-car-friendly than Denver, and Michigan, which — like Ontario — is an extremely car-hostile climate), so I know exactly what you mean. Hey, maybe you should buy my Dart! (Yes, I'm serious, it's for sale — send me a PM on here if you want more info).
Originally could've been a 170 or 225 slant-6 or a 273 V8. Now? Who knows!
...which means it'll also need interior work unless it's been stored in very nice indoor storage. This is all possible; new convertible tops can be had for these cars, as can upholstery. It's "only" a quesiton of money. Conversely, if the car's been stored uncovered, outside or in a leaky garage, there could be significant rust from water getting into the car through the faulty top and back window, soaking the carpet, and sitting on the floor.
They can be a lot of fun if you're not prone to sunburn and you live in a nice climate or are OK with having a limited-use vehicle that's not really too practical to use when the weather's not nice. They also tend to be worth more money than closed cars, but this should enter your decision process only if you wind up trying to decide what's a reasonable price to buy this what you found. Buying a car as an investment is a very unsound idea; read this thread.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I really appreciate your replies, especially since you've kept everything in layman's terms. I will do some homework on this site over the next few days and read the link that was posted. If you don't mind, I'd like to run by you whatever viable options I can find.

At the moment, I'm also trying to figure out what it would take to transport a vehicle from the US to Canada, just so I can widen out my search. Your points about the cost of body work have me looking outside of the salt and rust zones of Canada.

This is a great site and thanks for your sincere advice!

PS. that is an awesome looking Valiant!! I just figured out you attached pictures with it. It doesn't look like it needs any work at all. I'll have to show my pop in law this weekend!

Sure thing!
There are no regulatory restrictions on the import of vehicles 15 or more years old, so you wouldn't have to worry about any of that kind of paperwork regarding safety or emissions compliance. As long as you buy a car that has good and proper paperwork, the only border issue will be any applicable import duty & tax. Other than that, it's just a question of time and/or money to retrieve a car from afar. Beyond that, buying a car long distance entails some very significant hazards. It is very easy for things to go very wrong and to lose a lot of money and wind up disappointed and screwed with no practical recourse. No matter how many pictures and how much description you get from the seller, you do not know what you are getting unless you go and inspect the vehicle yourself and/or have a knowledgeable, trusted assistant who's within reach of the car go and inspect it for you (it's a good idea to have such an individual along even if you go yourself, since this is your first go at this kind of thing).

Avoiding payment-related problems isn't difficult as long as you're smart about how you proceed, as with any purchase.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

cfind, good luck on your hunt and restoration. Welcome to this board. People like SlantSixDan make this site a wonderful source of information and assistance. Working with your father-in-law will also make your project much more meaningful and fun. My son and I started our restoration project in June 2005, got setback by Hurricane Katrina, and have spent many great father-son hours restoring my very first car that I purchased brand new when I was seventeen. I have enjoyed this rebuild so much I have a 1973 Dart waiting to restore as soon as I finish the 74 Dart.

The 74 Dart will become my son's car. He has paid a lot of the rebuilding costs from his part-time job. I have mixed feeling about giving up my first car and many, many hours working on this car, but he will take good care of it. I hope your father-in-law doesn't mind putting the time into restoring your Valiant when he knows it will not be his. Good luck, and remember to use this site for your restoration questions.

74dartsport-Thanks for your personal experience. I'm really looking foward to working alongside my FIL, they're great inlaws and friends. My mom in law is in the last stage of cancer and I think he could use an outlet. He's wanted to do something like this for a long time and I think it would be good for us to have a little side project. I'm sure along with all the grunting, frustration, and beer drinking it'll help strengthen our bond. If all goes well, we'll just have to start a new one, but I know he's been wanting something a little faster, oh wait, no, a lot faster....Kind of the reverse, the younger guy wants a conservative car, while the older one wants the muscle and speed. Unless of course you can boost up a Valiant...Hmmm...

Don't look at it as an 'attempt'......

You won't fail


So it's your

First ever restoration

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

I have one advice for you don't throw anything away until you are finished

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http://www.cardomain.com/id/lncognito

emsvitil-that sounds like a recipe for success!

matadem-That advice sounds like it coming from experience. I shall heed it closely.

Hey, welcome to the board.

Dan is correct, vehicles (especially A-bodied slant six vehicles) are generally not purchased for the investment. They are purchased for the fun! I'm the author of "The Nagging Question" thread, and I've decided to keep my 4-dr Dart because I like it... but I would never be able to recoup what I'll have into it.

That said, convertibles can be a lot of fun, and are more likely to retain or increase in value over the years.

I didn't see where anyone had mentioned the specific areas of rust troubles with these vehicles. When you go to inspect the car, bring a big screwdriver, or an ice pick, or a ball peen hammer, and check the following areas carefully to make sure they are not rotted:
- The rear torsion bar mounts (and crossframe)
- The unibody rails (esp. where they begin to arch up for the front wheels)
- The rear leaf spring hanger area of the unibody

While you're there, check for rotted floorboards, spare tire well, doglegs, etc.

Rust is most definitely your worst enemy. California cars sound like a good idea. Of course, being born and raised in New England, I'm especially sensitive to the rust out issues!

-Mac

I can picture the farewell...Dan watching the Dart loaded on the flat bed pulling slowly out the driveway, headed to its new home in Alberta........hand over heavy heart........the gentle strumming of an acoustic guitar in the air.........and the whispering lyrics of Peter, Paul, & Mary in the background:

" Four strong winds, that blow lonely
seven seas that run high,
all those things that don't change, come what may
but our good times are all gone
and I'm bound for moving on
I'll look for you if I'm ever back this way
Chorus:
Think I'll go out to Alberta, where there's good there in the fall........."

It would be especially...I don't know what, but it'd be especially something (significant?) if the Dart winds up in Alberta, given that's where its original owner from whom I bought it now lives.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.