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Belt arrangment
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11611		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Super6 [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:15 am ]
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Look for late 80's and early to mid 90's Toyota trucks & SUV's for a larger V-groove bolt-on alt pulley.

Serpentine is an option, but you will need a machine shop at your disposal. I still have the CAD drawings from mine if you ever decide to head this route. Machining the wapterpump pulley is a PITA, and unless you have access to free machining, will cost a pretty penny. :(

Just an idea I will throw out there:

Have you considered fabbing up a bracket to install a belt tensioner? Either automatic or manual. Mounted in the right location, this would enable you to get more belt wrap on the alt pulley.

-S/6
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:51 pm ]
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I've ponderd a tensioner. I suppose fabbing up something for a tensioner would be less of a hassle then going serpentine. I'd need a longer belt, but its deffinately do-able.

So I take it that slants never did come with dual belt alternators then stock?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:33 pm ]
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All those electrical accessories don't add up to needing anything even remotely close to a 200A alternator. That's about 40A more than the heaviest-duty Dodge Cummins Diesel fleet-duty trucks come with. Sandy's right, a smaller alternator won't change the amount of electrical draw you're experiencing, but I think the problem lies elsewhere.

If your Taurus fan is really blowing 30A fuses and drawing enough current to lock the alternator, then it's probably more the fan's fault than the alternator. That fan should draw in the neighborhood of 10A, probably less. You can grab the exact spec, if you want it, from the relevant service manual. Electric fan motors often draw excessive current when they're getting ready to fail, due to faulty bearings and/or shorted motor windings.

If the current draw of the fan is as you've described it, it seems likely that repairing or replacing the fan will solve the problem without need of any further alternator modification hassles.
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:11 pm ]
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Dan I've had the same issue with the alternator before the taurus fan went on. I think your underestimating the current needed by the ford fan. It has 12awg wiring coming out of the motor. Kragen and autozone both show the fuse to be 50A MAXI style. I think I recall reading other articles on the web of people that used the same fan saying steady state current draw is in the 30ish amp range. Seeing as how it blew a 30A fuse with me, this would seem consistent.

I know I don't need all 200A that alternator can produce, and probably will never need it unless I go welding, but like I said the only reason I got such a beefy alternator was that I needed a higher current alternator, saw it labeld as 200A drop in so I went for it.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:03 am ]
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Just for info. Dan is correct about the Taurus fan current draw. I don't have the exact numbers here in the house, about 10-15 amps running should be right. The reason a 50 amp fuse is used, is because of the startup current draw, which can be in the 40-50 amp range for a few seconds. Most car makers over the years used a fusible link to solve the problem of high surge current, and a much lower constant current. Fusible link acts like a slow blow fuse.
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:16 am ]
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How come you need 200A??? cigarete ligther plugged TIG welder? :lol: I'm runnin TWIN electrofans (jap extraflat with built in starting resistance for low starting consumption) adn they draw about 5A each... I have a 70 or 80 (?) amp alternator, I also have sound equipment, msd ignition, ect etc and 70 or 80 amps provides enough juice to keep my varta 80 amp battery finely chraged. Your taurus fan sounds like about to crap out on you... dan has a point there.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:41 am ]
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Pierre: Somewhere I have all the stuff for a dual pulley alternator. It was on a 76 Valiant Brougham parts car I dismantled for discs , distributor and charging system upgrades. I only used my stock belt setup instead of the dual stuff. The Brougham was A/C and I believe the dual pulleys were more about that. Replacing the compressor with a tensioner might be a plan.
Give me a a chance to have an active day and I will have a look.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:07 am ]
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...don't know what your alternator looks like (dimesions, weight etc.), but just a guess - maybe the slipping is coming from trying to accellerate and decellerate a massive rotor with the single belt (the belt being the weak point, as you know) and the current draw that many are debating here is not a factor at all.

D/W
Author:  sandy in BC [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:57 pm ]
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Quote:
Having belt slippage issues under heavy loads....

Do the double water pump pullies from ac cars.... does it place the second pulley closer to the block or closer to the radiator? I'd need something closer to the radiator because if its closer to the block, running the belt up to the alternator will hit the head.

And, if it is closer to the radiator, then this will bring up the same issue, the pulley one step infront of the dampner leads to power steering so I'd need one ultra-long belt to stretch from powersteering clear across to the alternator.

Running one belt from alternator directly to waterpump and not the crank wouldn't do me any good because all the torque from the crankshaft is still being transmitted through one belt.

I did some digging around. On the 76 Brougham 225 A/C the crank had 3 grooves. The front one was for power steering. The water pump pulley had an extra groove forward of the standard one. The alternator pulley had 2 which lined up with the water pump and the rear 2 on the crank. Except that you have power steering this would be easy.
You would need to find a steering pump mount , 3 groove crank pulley and 2 groove water pump pulley and 1 more alternator belt. Hope this helps.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:52 pm ]
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Quote:
I did some digging around. On the 76 Brougham 225 A/C the crank had 3 grooves. The front one was for power steering. The water pump pulley had an extra groove forward of the standard one.
For the "smog" (secondary air injection) pump, yep.
Quote:
The alternator pulley had 2 which lined up with the water pump
True, a double-pulley (V8) alternator's forward groove does line up. There wasn't a 2-belt alternator drive from the factory on slant-6 cars (even in the mid '60s on police/taxi models with the big bruiser Leece-Neville alternators), but the pulley does line up.
Quote:
1 more alternator belt.
It's actually not quite that easy. If both alternator drive belts don't take the same path (around the same pulleys), and if the belts are purchased individually instead of as a matched set, belt life is short and problems (squealing, slipping, etc.) are many. Even at this late date, about 15 years after the Mopar V8s went to a serpentine belt accessory drive, Mopar and the aftermarket suppliers still provide matched-set 2-belt packs. Not for convenience 'cause you need two at a time, but because drive belts that are even a little bit different in size or routing just don't play nicely together.
Author:  Pierre [ Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:58 pm ]
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The next time I yank the VAT-40 out of the garage I will measure how much the fan draws. If the fan was bad it would of roasted long ago. I've had it on for several months already, since early summer iirc.

Sandy, bummer this is all disassembled, I would of loved to see a picture of that belt setup. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but something doesn't make sense with what you said. If the waterpump had a pulley that was forward of the standard one, that would put it on the same plane my current powersteering pump. So how is it that the two alternator belt pulleys that align with the 2 waterpump pulleys align with the rear 2 on the crank? Or perhaps the valiant broughams powersteering is actually one forward then standard?

Also noticed for that car parts store shows a tensioner. Wonder how that mounted.

I just tried searching for a diagram/picture of a slant with AC and/or smogpump but to no avail. If someone has one itd be greatly appreciated.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:32 am ]
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Pierre: In this setup (Canadian 76 Valiant Brougham Disco Edition) the power steering pump was located on the front of the 3 grooves. The A/C, alternator and water pump were on the rear 2. There was no AIR pump.

This setup would not have given you the pulley wrap on the alternator you probably want. The parts (sans A/C) and a tensioner would drive any alternator. I would mount the tensioner where the A/C compressor was located. Sorry no pix. The A/C, PS, etc went back to the crusher with the car. All I have left is the Alt pulley and WP pulley and a mix of etc parts installed on my GFs 66 D100 with Volare front suspension and 225/904.
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