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No I don't work for Zmax
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16914		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Ron Parker [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:25 pm ]
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Gang i know Dan is not going to like this but i agree engine aditives for the most part is a waste of money. If you rebuild a slant engine break it in with mineral oil ie 10w30 and when it is broke in put it on Mobil One Synthetic oil . I know two two Dupont lubericating oil energiners and a crap load of round track racers here in north Ga the racers swear by it so i run it. I would not race with out it in my engine. Thanks Ron Parker
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:28 pm ]
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instead of buying high dollar additive to your oil, run a heavier weight oil....for example 20/50. at least for the summer
Only reason to do that is you've got a worn-out engine you're trying to squeeze more miles out of. In an engine in good condition, all you're doing with heavier oil is accelerating engine wear due to slower oil circulation at startup, and costing yourself extra gas money.
Author:  HyperValiant [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:04 am ]
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Does anyone know about Lucas oil additive and is it also considered snake oil??
HyperValiant
Author:  mopar_nocar [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:26 am ]
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Dan said: Only reason to do that is you've got a worn-out engine you're trying to squeeze more miles out of

my response was about the Restore additive, so no argument there, but you've brought something up i don't entirely agree with. the idea that 20W50 will accelerate engine wear!!!

pull the valve cover off one of my engines that has 20w50 in it, even after several days of sitting, there IS oil up there. the parts are not as 'dry' as people think...

how much longer does REALLY it take my oil (20w50) to start circulating compared to thin oils? The oil gauge sure seems to come up quicker with a substantial oil in there. now, i realize pressure is resistace to flow, BUT it is a GREAT indicator of oil getting around the engine (at least to the point where the switch is.)

what is the actual percentage lost in gas mileage by running a 20w50 motor oil over a thinner oil? compared to what oil?

what about oil film thickness? is there a significant difference in flim thickness between oils?

sb
Author:  mcnoople [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:51 am ]
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instead of buying high dollar additive to your oil, run a heavier weight oil....for example 20/50. at least for the summer....

sb
What about the famed oil pump gear failure? Think pumping a thicker heavier oil might cause more stress on the gear. Of course there is the theory that only aftermarket pumps fail so I guess it's not really a problem as long as the motor is old, worn out, and has an original oil pump.
Author:  SwingLo73 [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:28 am ]
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All I know is that under any and all driving conditions since I bought my car, I have not once hit over 13/14, so we'll see what happens now. You're right though, it's not fair to look at the first tank and make assumptions. Now that I'm halfway through my second, it's actually looks better than I thought. If it averages higher over the next few weeks, well, it'll have been worth the $10, if not the $30 it usually costs.

BTW, I never expected ZMax to be a cure all for my fuel problems, just was curious if it would make any difference at all, I still have all my repairs coming down the line. And the reason I put premium in a slant is because over a full tank it's only a couple bucks more than regular87, and I think it's worth the extra 3 dollars a week.

Since we're on the topic of gimmicky products, what's everybody's opinion on the Vortex Valve?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:39 am ]
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Gang i know Dan is not going to like this but i agree engine aditives for the most part is a waste of money.
What is it in this I'm not supposed to agree with...?
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Mobil One Synthetic oil
Excellent oil—probably the best available at the consumer level without doing silly things like spending $7 on a quart of Scamsoil or $11 on a quart of RedLine.

(still wondering what I was supposed to disagree with)
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:42 am ]
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i don't entirely agree with the idea that 20W50 will accelerate engine wear!
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even when it doesn't square with facts.
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pull the valve cover off one of my engines that has 20w50 in it, even after several days of sitting, there IS oil up there. the parts are not as 'dry' as people think...
We're not talking about oil sitting on parts under the valve cover. We're talking about sufficient volumes of oil reaching bearing/journal interfaces and ring/cylinder interfaces. And that happens slower on startup with thicker oil—period.
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The oil gauge sure seems to come up quicker with a substantial oil in there.
Irrelevant; the oil gauge sender is upstream of all those critical interfaces.
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what is the actual percentage lost in gas mileage by running a 20w50 motor oil over a thinner oil?
Measurable and significant, and greater with decreasing ambient temperatures and increasing engine speeds.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:44 am ]
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All I know is that under any and all driving conditions since I bought my car, I have not once hit over 13/14
Got those books yet?
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If it averages higher over the next few weeks, well, it'll have been worth the $10, if not the $30 it usually costs.
Even when you factor in the damage you're doing to your engine?
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And the reason I put premium in a slant is because over a full tank it's only a couple bucks more than regular87, and I think it's worth the extra 3 dollars a week.
Worth it for...what gain? Fuel of higher-than-needed octane actually worsens driveability, emissions and mileage, with no side-benefit. It's not better fuel, it's just different fuel.
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Since we're on the topic of gimmicky products, what's everybody's opinion on the Vortex Valve?
What do you think...? ;-)
Author:  mopar_nocar [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:39 am ]
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how much slower??? what about the thicker film that is left behind by a thicker oil?


measurable...and significant, show me.....how much.


93 deg here today. is the ambient temp relevant?


i've posted my own anecdotal evidence, granted small sampling...but 312K miles on one car and 100+K on many many others..

are there any studies that show over many thousands of miles the greater wear on an engine?

i am NOT suggesting that other climates (non-tropical or non-desert) run thicker oil...but if its hot, its not bad.
sb
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:58 am ]
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how much slower??? what about the thicker film that is left behind by a thicker oil? measurable...and significant, show me.....how much.
Go get loaded-up on this info at www.bobistheoilguy.com .
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93 deg here today. is the ambient temp relevant?
The slow-flow-on-startup and fuel economy reduction are affected by ambient temperature.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:00 am ]
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Does anyone know about Lucas oil additive and is it also considered snake oil??
Yes, Lucas Motor Snot is bad for your engine, see Here.

There's a very simple test you can use to answer this same question about any brand of any product: Is it engine oil?

If the answer is "no", then it does not belong in your crankcase.
Author:  slantzilla [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:10 pm ]
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I did a back-to-back test in my Skylark race car back in the '80's with 10-30 oil and 20-50. 20-50 slowed the car down a full tenth. With that much more resistance gas mileage would have to suffer too.

We have tried running thick oil in our 3.0 GM motors at work. They have cam bearing issues that will cause low oil pressure at idle. Once thick oil gets warm, it will not hold any more oil pressure than 10-30. :shock:

I still wanna know why the kid is running premium fuel in a stock Slant? That alone will kill mileage to a certain extent, besides being a waste of money. :roll:
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:48 pm ]
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I made back to back tests on my slant powered stock elimimator car. Made three runs with 10-30, changed oil and filter to straight 30, 3 more runs, changed back to 10-30, 3 more runs. Same brand oil and filter. Averaged the runs. 1.1 tenths slower with the straight 30. I understand, a lot of the stock eliminator cars are now using 0-30 synthetic.
Author:  SwingLo73 [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:43 pm ]
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I'm working on getting those books, I'm hoping the technical division of powells will have them...

And although I don't have a degree in chemistry, I can't really see how premium gas would be worse than regular. I also think it's kind of unrealistic to compare a product that claims to be a deeper penetrating lubricant to pouring bleach into the oil. I don't think it claims to be a detergent like STP carb/injector cleaner that is added to fuel. The car was built in the 70's, but it can surely take advantage of modern technology, whether it be Mobil One Synth, Marvel/Zmax microlubes, or modern gasoline formulas.

Time will bear it out, if in a couple months my engine blows up, then I guess I'll know you were right :P
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