Slant *        6        Forum
Home Home Home
The Place to Go for Slant Six Info!
Click here to help support the Slant Six Forum!
It is currently Sat Jan 03, 2026 4:36 am

All times are UTC-08:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:47 pm 
Offline
Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Quote:
Quote:
...I might have missed something somewhere along the way, but no one ever seems to take into consideration fuel slosh when discussing the pros and cons of an east-west vs. a north-south carburetor
orientation.
Oh, heck, that's easy. If your car stalls when you stop short, you've got a Carter BBS or BBD or other carb with a front- or rear-hung float. If your car stalls when you make a hard left or right turn, you've got a Holley 1920 or other carb with a side-hung float. :shock:

So a Carter is perfect if you have 9" drum brakes all around...........
you don't have to worry about the stalling.................

_________________
Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:33 pm 
Offline
Turbo Slant 6
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 708
Location: Ooltewah, Tennessee
Car Model:
Quote:
Ross,

Having the carburetor's throttle shaft parallel with the crankshaft helps even out wet flow fuel distribution. With the carb mounted perpendicular to the crank you get wet flow off the throttle plates towards the rear of the engine. With the parallel throttle shaft the wet flow is more evenly distributed end-to-end. When I ran a 4bbl on a Clifford intake I mounted the carb with the primaries toward the left for this very reason. Pontiac did the same on their 4bbl OHC sixes. My end cylinders ran leaner (or was it richer? It's been a while.) than the center cylinders. Most folks with the primaries towards the front have lean front cylinders. I think a Hyper Pak intake would be less sensitive to carb orientation than the Clifford as the direction of flow within the manifold is more similar between the cylinders. The Clifford intake's end cylinders run fore and aft before turning toward the head and the center cylinders have a straighter shot. This difference in runners is much less pronounced on the Hyper Pak intake.

If you can get fuel distribution equal you can run leaner mixtures and get better economy before hitting lean missfire. My Clifford 4bbl combo would get a little bit of lean misfire on cold nights so I had to richen it up a bit. That's one big penalty of an unheated intake. Lean is ok at light load until you get misfire then the economy goes down the toilet.

So I vote for having the throttle shaft parallel to the crank.
OK, thanks. Me being carburetor illiterate it didn't occur to me that the orientation of the actual holes in the manifold would be incidental to butterfly orientation. Thanks.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:59 pm 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
Yes, with a factory 2 bbl intake and single throttle shaft carb the throttle shaft is perpendicular to the crank centerline, but a Weber 2 bbl with two throttle shafts those shafts end up parallel with the crank. Too bad Weber 38 DGES carbs are $400. They work well on Jeep 6s. If they were cheaper I'd have to try one. I did run a Holley/Weber 5200 once, but it was a too small and had a nasty hesitation if I hit the gas too fast. I had to drill out the idle jet so my warmed up 225 would even idle with that carb. Drilling the accelerator pump nozzle might have fixed the hesitation. I never found out though as I put my Holley 390 back on the car and ended up with more low end torque than the little 2bbl gave. I think the lesson here is that a lot of recalibration is to be expected when you use a carb from a 2.3 liter smog engine on a warmed over 3.7 liter.

_________________
Joshua


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:10 pm 
Offline
Supercharged

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
Posts: 6291
Location: So California
Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
Ok now I'm confused.

The super-six intake manifold had the holes perpendicular to the crank......


What 2-bbl manifold had them parallel????????

_________________
Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

8)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:50 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:20 pm
Posts: 1603
Location: Oxford, Georgia
Car Model:
Quote:
Ok now I'm confused.

The super-six intake manifold had the holes perpendicular to the crank......


What 2-bbl manifold had them parallel????????
I'm pretty sure you can rig a 2-bbl Clifford in that way, since it has a bolt-on carb adapter with a square bolt pattern.

One set of factory notes before the Super Six came out suggested cutting and welding a single barrel manifold so that you can put a BBD on that, same orientation.

_________________
"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:51 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:33 am
Posts: 2378
Location: Central GA
Car Model: Many & varied, including stock & hopped up /6's
Quote:
Quote:
...I might have missed something somewhere along the way, but no one ever seems to take into consideration fuel slosh when discussing the pros and cons of an east-west vs. a north-south carburetor
orientation.
Oh, heck, that's easy. If your car stalls when you stop short, you've got a Carter BBS or BBD or other carb with a front- or rear-hung float. If your car stalls when you make a hard left or right turn, you've got a Holley 1920 or other carb with a side-hung float. :shock:
Dan, cute, but I think you missed my point. You're right, the float and inlet mounting would have an effect, too, but I'm more concerned about covering/uncovering (or leaning, at the least) the main jets when turning certain carbs so that the throttle shaft runs parallel with the crankshaft. It is my belief that they were designed not designed to operate in that orientation. I realize it's really more a function of bowl/inlet orientation than it is throttle shaft. If one compares a BBS/1920 to a BBD, they will notice that the shafts are oriented differently, but the bowls both point front.

D/W

_________________
Image
If it ain't broke, fix it!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:19 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24805
Location: North America
Car Model:
Oh, OK, gotchya, you're talking about what would happen if e.g. you took a 1920 or BBS and turned it 90 degrees so the bowl faced leftward or rightward. Under hard turns, you could have the fuel slosh away from the jet and starve out the engine.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:41 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:33 am
Posts: 2378
Location: Central GA
Car Model: Many & varied, including stock & hopped up /6's
Quote:
Oh, OK, gotchya, you're talking about what would happen if e.g. you took a 1920 or BBS and turned it 90 degrees so the bowl faced leftward or rightward. Under hard turns, you could have the fuel slosh away from the jet and starve out the engine.
Actually, I was thinking if you nailed it, you might uncover the forward jet...

D/W

_________________
Image
If it ain't broke, fix it!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:17 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24805
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
Actually, I was thinking if you nailed it, you might uncover the forward jet...
H'mm. I can see that happening on a BBS, BBD or 1920 if you turned it 180° so the fuel bowl faced rearward. On the BB carbs, the effect would be especially pronounced because the acceleration would also tend to lock the float in the up/no-flow position.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:24 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:33 am
Posts: 2378
Location: Central GA
Car Model: Many & varied, including stock & hopped up /6's
Quote:
Quote:
Actually, I was thinking if you nailed it, you might uncover the forward jet...
H'mm. I can see that happening on a BBS, BBD or 1920 if you turned it 180° so the fuel bowl faced rearward. On the BB carbs, the effect would be especially pronounced because the acceleration would also tend to lock the float in the up/no-flow position.
I'm thinking 90°. So far, I haven't heard anyone propose turning them around backwards...

D/W

_________________
Image
If it ain't broke, fix it!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:00 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24805
Location: North America
Car Model:
OK, well, when I think about turning any of the common slant-6 carbs 90°, let's see here...thinking about a BBD...just based on where the jet is, I'm thinking you could probably get away with it without too much in the way of problems when turning or stopping. A BBD installed such that the bowl faced leftward or rightward would approximate the spatial relations of a Holley 1920 installed bowl-forward as intended.

Or am I still missing your point?

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:04 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:33 am
Posts: 2378
Location: Central GA
Car Model: Many & varied, including stock & hopped up /6's
The jets, man, the jets...

D/W

_________________
Image
If it ain't broke, fix it!


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2

All times are UTC-08:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited