This is not an item you would buy just to slap onto any ol' vehicle.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I think we should all let Dan have the head, nobody else should bid on it and step on his toes. Right now he hears that head callin to him.

.... Dan Buy me ,,, Daaaannnn Buuuyyyy mmeeee !!!! ....

As far as I'm concerned Dan, it's as good as yours .... Gary V.

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61 Valiant V-200 2dr 225" Hyper pak
66 A-100 pickup 440" mid engine
62 Valiant 2dr 225" drag car"
69 A-100 van 340"
76 Dodge conversion van

That's right generous of you, Gary, but I don't think it's going to be that simple. If one person (me or anyone else) buys this and stashes it on his shelf or puts it in his car...then one person gets it. If we work together, think before we act, and coöperate, then we have a real opportunity here, almost certainly our only opportunity we're ever going to get, to have a relatively easy and low-cost way to bring an aluminum head with much superior combustion chamber and ports to market for everyone/anyone who wants one, and all the development work was carried out by known-good engineers at Chrysler!

We will have to act in a coördinated, thoughtful and quick fashion if we're to pull this off; the auction ends in 6 days.

I've been in talks all afternoon/evening with Juan (argentina_slantsixer). He's got a foundry of known-good skill and competence lined up; they did a great deal of work for Chrysler in the '60s-'70s, and, having been told of the nature of the project, their preliminary answer is "Yes, we can reproduce this faithfully, we've done this kind of reproduction work before when tooling or blueprints were not available". Our thought at the moment is to make a faithful reproduction of the head, the way the factory did it, without attempting to make major modifications. Cost estimate at the moment is "under $1000 including shipping" for a finish-machined head w/guides and seats, ready to install valvetrain and install, or "under $600 including shipping" for an as-cast head ready for individual modifications.

We want to see about getting Doc on board as chief (re-)engineer since he has experience with these heads, with me and Juan on financing and logistics. Obviously if the price of the head goes stratospheric, then we will need more financial backing, but we are trying to strike a balance here: The more people chip in, the less money each person has to spend, but the worse becomes the problem of "too many chiefs, not enough indians": Each participant has his own ideas of how and where the work should be done, everyone's got his own pet features and modifications he wants to see in the aluminum head of his dreams. It's very common to come to a complete, gridlocked standstill when there are too many decision makers in the mix. Just take a look at all the previous "dreamy-dream land" threads about aluminum heads that we've had here over the years.

Our thinking on doing the repro (at least initially) as a faithful copy of the factory effort is as follows: This proto head is known to have worked well. The combustion chamber is Chrysler's fast-burn shape, used very successfully in 318s from '85 to '89. The ports are larger and better shaped. It strikes us that significant deviations from this would stand more chance of making things worse rather than better.

So, that's the idea as Juan and I have discussed it so far. Let's discuss it quickly and efficiently: Does anyone see problems with the idea?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I would be more interested in the mold than the head does that make sence. Yea i would get on board. Thanks Ron Parker












It Aint Over Until I Win

Dan,

I want an aluminum head. If I can front $500 toward the development and help other community members rather than spending big bucks just to own this one head I will.

The chambers pictured in the auction do not look like the fast burn small block heads. They look like the 2.2 bathtub chamber to me, but someone other than me has my 2.2/2.5 book so I can't be completely certain. I would want the newer style chamber myself.

Aluminum /6 head chamber...

2.2/2.5 swirl chamber...

'302 casting Mopar small block chamber...

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Joshua

Let's not get carried away, even this late run SL6 prototype head is 25 year old technology.


In the end, anyone reproducing this kind of complex part will need lots of tooling and good blueprints in order to get the job done right. You can't effectivly manage the production of a complex & high tech reproduction cylinder head with-out good tooling and plans (blueprints) for everyone to follow.

I have had a aluminum SL6 head design "on paper" for over 10 years now, I think my design would be a better performance head. (bigger & better port and combustion chamber design) I think the factory's design work at that time was more focused on reducing exhaust emissions.
The last time I quoted this (USA prices) it was over 3 times that cost estimate.


Oh so true.... I have no solution to this issue, that is why I have never moved beond the design and quote phase of a reproduction SL6 head. I don't have the money to fund the project by myself and I don't want to be cought-up in all the politics that would come with a group of investors.
DD

Groovy. Please send me a PM and we'll work on some logistics.
Now you show me these three photos all together, I agree with you, they're not the V8 fast-burn chambers. They certainly are more of a quench chamber than we've presently got, and they were referred to in the engineering program notes as "aluminum RG fast-burn cylinder head", which makes me think they were paying more attention to combustion chamber shape than they paid in the late '50s when the regular head's chamber shape was finalized almost as an afterthought.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

So what would it take to get your head off the ground?

Deposits on production? How many buyers?

Are you able to put the Hyperpak back into limited production as well, or was there an agreement with Clifford that precludes that?

I certainly wish I caught your production run... Timing...

CJ

I am in for a "Group Effort" and will donate as much as I can to get an aluminum head for the slant! I dont want to see this head bought and stored on a shelf somewhere,I want to see some good use out of it! PM me or email me at a-gent@hotmail.com with any more info on this "group effort"!

Also whoever said that it is not possible for me to achieve my 36 m.p.g or better goal you can just keep believing that! I know that the car probally never orignally got 36 m.p.g, but I have no doubt in my mind that I could achieve this goal! Not to mention that m.p.g mike seems to have gotten 40 m.p.g with his Duster!

While I can't commit to anything near a thousand dollars initially (I'm currently working on my first home purchase and am hoping to close after the first of the year), if something can actually get worked out to hopefully bring this to light then sign me up for some financial backing. However who knows how high this guy has set his reserve. Who wants to ask him what it is to see if he'll let that info out?

I'll be watching this thread closely.

I have started a friendly chat with the seller, who is not interested in revealing his reserve. I asked twice, politely, and indirectly. The first time, in addition to some questions about the head itself, I asked "Is it a secret reserve you've set on this auction?". He answered the tech questions and ignored the reserve question. I responded with more tech talk and said "I assume because you didn't answer that it is a secret reserve?". Again, no answer. So, while I have never understood the point of secret reserves, that is how he's doing it.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I'm guessing this thing will go 3K. ANyone else care to venture a guess?

No, I am not interested in it for myself. I think there is way too little gain from an aluminum head. This one in it's present state will take lots of work to make it worth anything performance wise.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Doug,

Since Juan (argentina_slantsixer) already has the ability to produce good-quality castings, have you considered licensing your new aluminum head design to him? The exchange rate for the Argentinian Peso is around USD$1.00=ARS$3.09 so the cost of production seems reasonable.

If your better design is already available (c/w prints), it doesn't make sense to reproduce the old Chrysler prototype. I think it would be better to manufacture this component in Argentina rather than not at all.

Frank

Ok, the reserve on the head was/is $1500 and I'm high bidder. I already offered to front $500 toward this project so I'm only $1000 short of paying for the thing. Actually, I should state this another way and make something clear. If I win this for $1500 I'll donate it to the reproduction cause for $1000 as long as I can buy it back, intact, for the same $1000 if the reproduction plans fall through.

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Joshua

Well, coincidentally I was just about to bid $1500 after getting clearance from my honey. I guess more discussion is needed here before we start a bidding war.

If I'm going to drop $3k on a head, it seems that might be better used as seed money to start a custom head production run.

I would like to have it and would be willing to send it out free for reproduction (or improved reproduction) as long as it is not damaged and I can have it back intact.

Practical question: How would you reproduce this without cutting it up to make molds?? Maybe a flexible material (maybe porous silicone) you pour into the water jackets and then pull it out?

Lou

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