Slant Six Forum :: Bent pushrod

Thanks Josh, one question (or maybe two):

Quote:

If there is any metal transfer (galling) on the valve stem the valve will have to be replaced.

Any? It looks really minor in size and shape, one side only 3/16 x 3/4 long, no brass showing, like if a piston seized. What's the physical result of this that makes replacement necessary? Is it going to be prone to sticking due to greater expansion or something? Just trying to understand the physics of all this.

Quote:

When I built my first hot slant I had to have .100" taken off the tops of the valve guides for seal to retainer clearance.

Would you recommend that over ditching the positive seals?

Also, I'm planning on taking it to the place that did the work in the first place. I really don't know if they did anything to cause this or if it is a result of bad gas or what? For future reference, does anybody have a backup/alternative machine shop they'd like to recommend near Redondo Beach, Ca?

Author:	sandy in BC [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:51 am ]
Post subject:
....Versus channel?.....I dont get any channels ( zero).....no reception...too cheep for satellite.... The channel you want on Saturday nights is CBC ( Hockey Night in Canada.....7 hours of hockey in prime time (most watched TV show in Canada)....no charge if you get reception.

Author:	drrw [ Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Another, less good, update. Today I decided to sort this out (or should I say go for broke, pardon the pun). I've driven it exactly twice since the last test ride. It was fine, but didn't seem right. I wasn't on any hills of note during these drives. I noticed yesterday that my heat riser spring had got unsprung, so I resecured it by bending it a bit better and then warmed it up to see if it held in place. It did fine. I moved the timing back a bit to make sure everything was on the safe side, and then I did a test drive with no vac advance to see how it ran. At the end of this I came up my hill. This is a first gear only hill, can't really go up in second. About 2/3 up, I heard that jake break sound. Uh-oh, here we go again. Let off the gas, seems fine again. So I stop at my house for a second, and try it again. Didn't make it far before the very loud clatter started. Now both pushrods in the number 5 cylinder are bent. I feel like the head has to come off before my own head explodes trying to figure out why this is happening. Obviously, has to be fully warmed up. Obviously, has to be under a lot of load. Question really is whether the valve to guide clearance is too small or the heat is too large. Sure does bend the pushrods, whatever it is. On a related note, I feel like I read somewhere about some nice Australian head gaskets. I could do a search, but if someone has that info, I'd appreciate it. Not sure when I'll have the time and inclination to pull the head. I'm sure I'll be looking for some advice at that time. Stay tuned. Daryl

Author:	69a100 [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:34 am ]
Post subject:
I've read this a couple times and Im still scratchin my head. Without listening to whats going on and all I would have to say is maybe 1 or a few things are going on. My first queston would be, is everything fine with the engine cold? Have you driven it around town staying away from heavy load conditions[i.e. no steep hills] etc.? First- least likely would be you have a cam timing problem. Like either your gear and chain is off a tooth or 2 causing banging action under heavy load, or a goofy ground camshaft. Second- maybe somehow you flattened the rocker shaft causing the rockers to hang up. Or your valve guide clearance is to tight so that when engine warms up things get tighter and hangs them up. Did you build this or did a shop? What mill work did you have done to the motor. Your going to have to review everything that could cause this and check to see if thats it. Good Luck

Author:	MenkeMoose [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:08 am ]
Post subject:
Pentastar parts in Australia http://www.pentastarparts.com.ausells the permaseal ap210 head gaskets, but they are not listed on the website, so you have to email them. They are pricey this way though, $68AUS including tax and shipping to the US (which was about $62 US a month ago, when I ordered it). -Moose

Author:	walpolla [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:
hello moose, I am interested in the shipping cost you quote to the US. was this post or air freight and with or without insurance? reason I ask is I just shipped 3 permaseal head,and 3 header gaskets to the US and postage (no insurance) was only $46.50 au. gasket prices were a LOT less than your quote too. (all Permaseal) go figure? regards,Rod

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Bent pushrod https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26015	Page 2 of 3

Author:	mopardemon71 [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Hey Rod! there you go! Now you can chrage like they do! Moose that is pricy Rod got me a way better deal than that. It dide take what... 3 weeks but they are reeeaally cool!

Author:	MenkeMoose [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Rod, how much would your price be for 1 head gasket including tax and shipping? $46.50 was just the shipping on all those gaskets, right? I did a search on this site & elsewhere and came up empty handed. I saw that a few folks had gone in on a group buy once, and they paid about $38 a piece, but those seemed to be all gone now. That's when I contacted Pentastar Parts. I paid $44AUS for the Gasket, $22AUS Airmail, and $2AUS tax. -Moose

Author:	walpolla [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:
hello moose, you have PM. regards,Rod

Author:	drrw [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	valve guide seals/was bent pushrod
Back to pushrods, or rather heads/valve guide seals at this point. I pulled the head today and everything looks sweet as pie at first glance. One thing though, it seems my memory is garbage (nothing new there) and I do have positive valve seals. Not sure why I decided to do that. So should I (and can I) replace all the positive seals with umbrella seals at this point? I say can I because I've been reading that the guide had to be machined to accept the positive seals. Does that preclude going back to umbrella seals? I'm really thinking that it would be a good idea to get rid of the positive seals if I can. I've only pulled one valve (the first exhaust one that stuck) and it doesn't look galled in any way. I wiped it off and it looked like new above of the carbon-ated area.

Author:	Joshie225 [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:24 am ]
Post subject:
Yes, you can simply remove the positive seals and use the umbrella type. Do you have stainless valves? They do expand more than conventional steels and require a little more guide clearance. If it were up to me I'd take the head to a good machine shop and have the guides honed a bit. I would also assemble the heads with a moly grease on the stems as some of the moly will stay behind for a long time and provide better lubrication.

Author:	drrw [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks Josh. Yes stainless valves. What should the clearance be? I've just finished pulling all the valves. The last stuck intake/bent pushrod valve does have the appearance of being stuck, slightly gauled. Strangely, the very last valve, exhaust #6, barely moves in it's bore. It looks clean, go figure. It also seems like there is very little clearance at full opening between the valve keepers and the seals. I'm just eyeballing with my craptastic plastic calipers, but at 7/16 (my cam is .435) off the seat, it looks like they're touching. I'm convinced those seals have to go.

Author:	Joshie225 [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't know what the clearance should be. My machinist friend died almost a year ago otherwise I could get you a good answer. If there is any metal transfer (galling) on the valve stem the valve will have to be replaced. When I built my first hot slant I had to have .100" taken off the tops of the valve guides for seal to retainer clearance.

Author:	drrw [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks Josh, one question (or maybe two): Quote: If there is any metal transfer (galling) on the valve stem the valve will have to be replaced. Any? It looks really minor in size and shape, one side only 3/16 x 3/4 long, no brass showing, like if a piston seized. What's the physical result of this that makes replacement necessary? Is it going to be prone to sticking due to greater expansion or something? Just trying to understand the physics of all this. Quote: When I built my first hot slant I had to have .100" taken off the tops of the valve guides for seal to retainer clearance. Would you recommend that over ditching the positive seals? Also, I'm planning on taking it to the place that did the work in the first place. I really don't know if they did anything to cause this or if it is a result of bad gas or what? For future reference, does anybody have a backup/alternative machine shop they'd like to recommend near Redondo Beach, Ca?

Author:	sandy in BC [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Get them to toss in a new valve....I bet they would like a shot at fixing a problem that is small and easy now......versus later.

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Author:	Joshie225 [ Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:
If there is metal on the valve stem that doesn't belong there it will eat the guide. You can't get the metal off the stem so the valve has to be replaced. If you don't need more retainer to guide clearance don't cut down the guide. Umbrella seals are fine and will oil the guides better. Positive seals allow less oil which is good if you are pushing the limits of the fuel you are using as oil reduces the effective octane rating. Bad gas will seize valves because of the deposits it leaves on the valve stems. If the stems are clean bad gas is not your problem. It's not going to take very much more guide to stem clearance to make everything work as it should. Quote: Thanks Josh, one question (or maybe two): Quote: If there is any metal transfer (galling) on the valve stem the valve will have to be replaced. Any? It looks really minor in size and shape, one side only 3/16 x 3/4 long, no brass showing, like if a piston seized. What's the physical result of this that makes replacement necessary? Is it going to be prone to sticking due to greater expansion or something? Just trying to understand the physics of all this. Quote: When I built my first hot slant I had to have .100" taken off the tops of the valve guides for seal to retainer clearance. Would you recommend that over ditching the positive seals? Also, I'm planning on taking it to the place that did the work in the first place. I really don't know if they did anything to cause this or if it is a result of bad gas or what? For future reference, does anybody have a backup/alternative machine shop they'd like to recommend near Redondo Beach, Ca?