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Tips for welding exhuast cast iron manifolds (Certanium?)
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38403		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:03 am ]
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A guy in MD that Sam Powell sent me to said he used a stick welder and "Everdur" rod. It is not iron or steel rod, but something else, and he just used it on iron heads.

He said no heating was required. He tried to weld up my fubar'ed #6 exh port on my good head and my previous welding attempt made it too buggered to fix.

Lou
Author:  Reed [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:10 am ]
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Quote:
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Increased flow, smoother flow pattern, elimination of the potential cracked exhaust manifold syndrome.
Wish mean hp increase?
And if yes do you know by how much?
Probably not too much of a HP increase, but the peace of mind knowing that the manifold isn't likely to crack makes it worth it. The stock exhaust manifold directs the exhaust pulses directly at one another before they exit the manifold. This leads to more back pressure than is optimal. Splitting the exhaust manifold into banks of cylinders 1-3 and 4-6 ensures that the exhaust pulses from consecutively firing cylinders will not run into each other in the manifold. Splitting the manifold allows the pulses to exit the manifold without having to fight past the previous exhaust pulse.

Splitting the manifolds also allows you to run true dual exhaust which some people say sounds really good on a slant six, but really doesn't offer much in the way of performance over a split manifold setup which goes into a larger single exhaust system.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:12 am ]
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Quote:
A guy in MD that Sam Powell sent me to said he used a stick welder and "Everdur" rod. It is not iron or steel rod, but something else, and he just used it on iron heads.

He said no heating was required. He tried to weld up my fubar'ed #6 exh port on my good head and my previous welding attempt made it too buggered to fix.

Lou
This Everdur?

"Ansonia C65600, also known as Everdur, has a nominal composition of 95.8% copper, 3.1% silicon and 1.1% manganese. As a low fuming bronze welding filler metal, its good fluidity and strength makes it most commonly used where the highest weld metal properties are required.

Joining: Ansonia Everdur C65600 is suitable for inert arc, carbon arc and oxyacetylene welding of Everdur, copper and copper alloys; also for welding to and for surfacing steel. It produces excellent results in the inert gas welding of copper-silicon alloys.

Applications: Typically used extensively as welding rod and filler metal for welding copper and copper alloys, and for many sheet metal applications such as automotive bodywork using plain and galvanized steel, as well as in the fabrication of chemical and process equipment and other pressure vessels."

see: http://www.ansoniacb.com/CDA%20Files/C65600.htm
Author:  sandy in BC [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:41 am ]
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There is a big difference between brazing up a port and and adding a 3lb flange to a used exhaust manifold.

The guys I worked with called it Ni-Rod.....it has a high nickel content .....and requires preheating.

The guy Lou saw was using a brazing rod for a stick welder.

You can easily make your duals by brazing up the bits using an oxyacetylene setup. Its easy to work with. You use the torch to heat the cast....then stick the rod into the crack and watch it flow. Too bad it will start to leak almost as soon as you fire it up.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:01 am ]
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When I broke the driver's side early A-body V8 manifold on my Dart I got some plain N99 rod (not a stick electrode which is also available in N99, but is flux covered) and my welder buddy was able to TIG it back together no problem. Of course as Sandy pointed out the pieces have to fit together really well and mine did.
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:25 am ]
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I think that was the everdur.

Lou
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Increased flow, smoother flow pattern, elimination of the potential cracked exhaust manifold syndrome.
Wish mean hp increase?
And if yes do you know by how much?
Probably not too much of a HP increase
This guess is based on…?
Author:  Reed [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wish mean hp increase?
And if yes do you know by how much?
Probably not too much of a HP increase
This guess is based on…?
Pure speculation. I have never run dual exhausts on a slant, but I would expect that a stock log exhaust manifold cut in two does not provide the scavenging benefits that a set of tuned long-tube headers will. Splitting the manifold will eliminate the exhaust pulses fighting each other, which will help flow and give a HP boost, but I can't see how it would be near the benefit headers can provide. The main advantages to splitting the stock manifold over installing headers, in my opinion, are the decreased chances of the manifold cracking, durability and longevity as opposed to headers, ease of installation as opposed to headers, and retention of the carb heating provision of the rear manifold.

But, as always, this is purely my speculation. I have no dynamometer results or 1/4 mile time slips to back up my hypotheses. I would welcome anyone who does have such proof to share it and prove me wrong. I have no basis other than what I have read over the years to support my position, so take it with a grain of salt.
Author:  rida4Christ [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Probably not too much of a HP increase
This guess is based on…?
Pure speculation. I have never run dual exhausts on a slant, but I would expect that a stock log exhaust manifold cut in two does not provide the scavenging benefits that a set of tuned long-tube headers will. Splitting the manifold will eliminate the exhaust pulses fighting each other, which will help flow and give a HP boost, but I can't see how it would be near the benefit headers can provide. The main advantages to splitting the stock manifold over installing headers, in my opinion, are the decreased chances of the manifold cracking, durability and longevity as opposed to headers, ease of installation as opposed to headers, and retention of the carb heating provision of the rear manifold.

But, as always, this is purely my speculation. I have no dynamometer results or 1/4 mile time slips to back up my hypotheses. I would welcome anyone who does have such proof to share it and prove me wrong. I have no basis other than what I have read over the years to support my position, so take it with a grain of salt.
Thanx, now where can I find a pic of the finish product. Because I'm very interested on making it my next project for The Sage
Author:  sandy in BC [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:30 am ]
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Quote:
Probably not too much of a HP increase
seems reasonable.......
Author:  Wesola78 [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:27 pm ]
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For me, decreasing the chances of a manifold cracking is reason enough to have Dutra Duals. Also, I like being able to say that my slant six has "Dutra Duals".:)
If I'm not mistaken, I remember reading a few years ago that Doug Dutra himself compared the results of drag racing a slant six with headers, and racing that same slant six with Dutra Duals. Again, I'm not sure, but I believe that with headers, the slant six was only a couple tenths of a second faster than it was with the Dutra Duals.
If my middle aged brain is smeckledorfed, I apologize. Maybe Doug Dutra will clear this up.
Anyhoo, I likes my Dutra Duals. Maybe someday I will cross over to the dark side and install, duh duh duh (ominous music), headers! Okay, I'm getting carried away here, my bad...
Author:  Reed [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:14 pm ]
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For me, decreasing the chances of a manifold cracking is reason enough to have Dutra Duals.
Me too. That and the ability to keep the carb heat makes the dual cast-iron manifolds the clear first pick for me.
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