1. CJ
2. Rob Simons
3. Lou Madsen
4. Tristan Foley
5. Rob "DI"
6. USAJon
7.

Everybody PM me with full contact info. Mailing address and phone number. That way if this starts going forward, OCG can contact you directly. I'm not going to get in the middle of the $$.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

I am definitely interested in a rolller for our turbo'd 225 motor, but am going to have to have some more education RE: lifters, their origin, cost, and orientation/anchoring mechanism so as to get a handle on the total cost of the roller swap, before I can commit.

Can anyone here educate me on this? I am a slant 6 newbie, but have several years of experience with hot-rodded V8's.

Are 440 roller lifters compatable with a deal like this, or are there better ones? I would have no interest in hydraulic roller tappets. Our car is just a drag car.

Thanks for any information!!!

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

Try this link here and you'll get up to speed on some off the ins and outs of doing this. http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... ms&start=0

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!

That's an interesting "read." Thanks for the link!

After some research over the last year or so, and after reading this thread you graciously provided me with, I think I am going to put the roller idea on the back burner, for now. I have a new project that is a turbocharged 225 slant six in a 1964 Valiant that is nearing completion, and should be operational in a month or two. It has a Bullet flat-tappet cam that has traditional turbo parameters (210/210-degrees @ .050"-lift, .484" total lift with stock 1.5:1 rockers, ground with 115-degrees of lobe separation) and a Comp Cams twin to that cam, with 220 degrees of duration on the exhaust side. When I get through experimenting with those two, or after they both go flat (this is a race-only application; no street driving,) I would certainly consider a roller for this engine.

But, not right now. I have all I can do just to get it running, without more "experimentation."

I really do appreciate that this is being pursued by folks who will very likely get it done, though. The slant six community has needed this for a long time... even pre-"ZDDP-crisis" days.

Thanks again for all the great information/discussion; it was very enlightening!

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

I called up to OCG today. Looks like we're looking at $475 finish ground. We need ten minimum to get this price.

We also need to land on rough LSA and lift numbers for this to go through. The blanks will be finish ground by OCG. This includes fuel pump eccentic and drive gear hobbed on.

So now we need everybody to land on some rough numbers to get this going.

Everybody on the list, give us your numbers, and we'll look into getting them compiled. I'll call Ken back, and see if we can't find enough common ground to make it happen.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

I assume this is a durable streetable grind, otherwise I'm not interested.

For a NA motor, I'd ask for something like 106 LSA, 255 @ 0.050" and 0.560" lift. For a turbo, something like 114 LSA, 225 @ 0.050", and 0.520" lift. Not sure if this is anywhere close to anyone else...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Mighty close to what I'm looking for. Not much percentage in going higher with the lift numbers. I'm looking for something in the .550 range, perhaps a bit less for the blower engine. 114° sounds about right.

There should be some wiggle room for the final grind.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

They are going to have to invent a lobe for us, for street I like the 1354 grind 250/250 @.050 wth .488 lift...OCG's lobe catalog goes quickly up to .600 lift not too many lobes after that...I wouldn't mind seeing grind # 518 but reverse the profile so it has 258@050 intake with a .552 lift and the exhaust being 250@50 exhaust with the .549 there instead for an all out NA performance cam...

-D.Idiot

Wowser... thats cheap! I may not be able to afford to say "no" to a deal like that...

I would like to hear some input from Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson on the subject of the specs for the turbo grind, though. Both of those guys have demonstrated that they know how to build a 500+-horsepower slant six with a flat tappet cam. That is no accident of nature.

When they talk, I listen...

I am particularly interested in duration, with an eye toward the fact that "effective duration" of the motors with the roller will likely be more than it would, with the same opening and closing numbers with a flat tappet cam.

Even in my abysmal ignorance, I still have this little birdie sitting on my shoulder, whispering, "turbo motors don't LIKE overlap, you know..."

I'd really hate to spend the kind of money it's going to take to achieve an operational roller setup (lifters, etc.) and find out that for one reason or another, my motor was somehow, faster with a flat tappet cam.

I don't see that happening, but if it DID, it would likely be because of valve event numbers getting skewed.

Knowledge is power. Tom and Ryan can help us with that, I think.

If you guys are "out there," how about giving us your two-cents' worth on this issue. please?

Thanks for any information!!!!

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

Bill the main reason that there isn't much feedback or data available in the Slant world regarding roller cams is because there really hasn't been that many guys to have ever run them, compared to other Inline niches. The main reason is in the past, they have been too cost prohibitive because the Slants are just too small of the segment for manufacturers to do much R&D to develop grinds for them, unlike the Chevy and Ford inline 6's that you can call any number of cam companies and get a roller cam ground that same day if needed because they have close to 40 years of a head start in that area of roller cams being used in many different racing venues. True, the Slant might be close to its peak with head flow and limitations in that area that might not deem a roller cam necessary for that engine, but there is always going to be a segment that will persue the envelop of higher technology, me being one of them, so I have always used roller cams in all the race engines I have ever raced, and I fully understand the advantages they have to offer over a flat tappet. A roller cam will lighten your wallet, but if your going to build a race engine, or even a moderate performance engine, make it be all it can be.....

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!

Thanks for the rundown! I have been a constant fan of drag racing, and to an extent, slant six racing from the beginning. I watched Pete McNichol's Willys coupe win his class at the US Nationls back in '61 or '62 (for some reason, I can't remember which) going 14-flat with a normally-aspirated 170!

I had two friends, "back in the day," who had 225 Hyper Paks, and I drove both of them in races at one time or another.

Our turbo slant six project (race car) will probably get a roller cam, eventually, but we have to crawl before we can walk; right now, my partner and I have all we can say "grace" over just getting the car running, and putting together some meaningful shakedown runs. You know the deal... LOL!

But, I understand what you're saying about the value of rollers. And, I agree!

We need a base-line first, though.... and, we're getting close to having a chance to do that. Stay tuned....

Bill, in Conway, Arkansas

Got some great feedback from Mike Jeffery tonight during a phone call regarding a head he's working on for me.

What we're looking for here is:

What LSA are you looking for, and what gross lift?

We're going to be looking at a blank that can have perhaps a 5° LSA window, and one that allows for 550 to 650 lift. Perhaps. I'll need to talk to OCG to find out how much variance we have.

For NA, 104° is magic, for adders, 110° delivers. That may be a good window. Through experiementation, we've found that returns diminish drastically once we exceed lift over .550" net. Roller will allow for higher ramp rates. That allows for greater duration.

So if we put things in perspective, a roller cam is going to benefit those of us that are going to try to spin the engine at high rpm.

My aluminum rod mill will see 6500. The Titanium rod engine may spin past 7.

If I don't see some input, I'll work with the numbers above, and see what we can do. We'll need more interest to get this show on the road though.

We need to order a minimum of ten blanks to make this thing a go.

I'm in for a few.

If your going to get in, now would be the time.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Ceej,

I will be running alot of boost on the drag car so the those number windows would work, i don't have some of the other numbers i need yet to say persicly what i need. It may be a bit before that engine gets past a parts collecting phase. I will try to figure out some numbers right quick just incase this goes forward.

TF

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Even in moderation i am excessive!

CJ, is the price you threw out here in an earlier post($475) going to be for a finish ground, heat treated, copper plated camshaft with oil pump drive hobbed in it ready to stick in the engine and run. Because you mentioned "blanks" in your last post, this is sorta hinting at an unfinished cam. I also think for serious power adders, a LSA of 114° like Lou mentioned is more in line, the range of lift you mentioned is good though.

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There's no such thing as too much cam....only not enough engine!

The price is finish ground, gear hobbed on.

OCG is looking to order a blank from thier supplier. To keep the price in range, it will not be a whole bunch of different blanks. For power adder cars, the large seperation angle will be the ticket. That may not allow for a NA cam LSA.

The numbers I put up are just a WAG right now. I'm not certain what the window of LSA and lift will be until I talk to OCG.

Mike took a stab at the LSA window. The lift window was my guess.

I will post back up after I've had a chance to talk to them. The more numbers those interested share, the better we can determine our chances of building this part.

CJ

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing