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https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47997		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Rex Baker [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:59 am ]
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Quote:
I'm not sure I'm following you. If I'm understanding you correctly you're using the relay "backwards"; terminal 30 is power out to the bright (turn/DRL) filament, yes?

Terminal 87 (NO) is connected to ____?
Terminal 87a (NC) is connected to ____?
Diode goes where?

"Use the positive lead that normally goes to the bulb to energize the relay" sounds like we're connecting the car's original front turn signal wire to relay terminal 86 (and grounding #85). But if we do it that way, the relay will energize and de-energize in time with the turn signal flasher (which will have to be a non-load-sensitive item).

Perhaps I'm extra-tasty-crispy-dense this evening, but I'm not seeing how two changeover relays and two diodes will provide the needed operation: front turn signals (not parking lamps) burning steadily when ignition is on except when you're signalling for a turn, at which point the turn signal on that side flashes.
Sorry, logged off last night, past my bedtime. I think you've got it. Using that style relay, 87 goes no where.

Quote I grabbed of the internet, slow typist. :lol:

"They will use numbers 85 and 86 as the electromagnet control. This coil will usually contain a diode to protect the contact and other circuits from the sudden collapse of current when the switch is turned off. On these relays (the most common) it’s important not to reverse the 85 and 86 (coil) pins. The number 30 pin is connected to the high current source and number 87a is the prong where the arm parks (off)."

If you still need one, I'll try to scribble up a diagram for you this week. I'm not sites like this regularly but will check back later to see if anyone else has had the main bearing issue I posted under engine section.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:22 am ]
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Quote:
I think you've got it.
You're more confident than I am. I'm having an extended short-bus moment over here.
Quote:
"They will use numbers 85 and 86 as the electromagnet control. This coil will usually contain a diode to protect the contact and other circuits from the sudden collapse of current when the switch is turned off. On these relays (the most common) it’s important not to reverse the 85 and 86 (coil) pins. The number 30 pin is connected to the high current source and number 87a is the prong where the arm parks (off)."
Yeah, I already know this basic info about how relays work.
Quote:
If you still need one, I'll try to scribble up a diagram for you this week.
Wouldjya mind, please? Sounds like you've got an easy, low-parts-count, reliable solution I'd like to try for myself, but I just can't picture your setup. If you'd rather email it than host and post it, I'm 62lancer åt gmail døt com .

Thanks!
Author:  hantayo13 [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:06 am ]
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SHORT BUS??????? is this the shortbus????? mama says I may ride if I promise not to lick he window and wear my helmet LMAO
Author:  Rex Baker [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:46 pm ]
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Looks like I will be on the fly this week & I also realized I didn't have anything with this running light mod, anymore. It was kind of a 'phase' thing for me about 10 years ago. Anyway, I grabbed some wire scraps & a couple relays, threw them on the b we keep here in the little garage, once my wife said, 'Hey, you can shoot video with the Canon'. Cool! My apologies (& my shame!) for the god awful rat nest I made but I timed my self and it took 18 minutes. :lol:

I just wanted to give you an example. No 'b's' were harmed in the making of this and 3 minutes after shooting it was back to normal. :lol: I will report back on my main bearing issues, next weekend.

Here's the link, hope it works! Have a great week.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/ ... I_0328.mp4
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:57 pm ]
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Cool beans! Thanks for the vid. I'm sure it'll all be clear as water-clear epoxy once I see the diagram.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:33 pm ]
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Beautiful car. Wife aint bad either. :wink: Keep us up to date on progress.

Sam
Author:  Rex Baker [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:08 am ]
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Quote:
Cool beans! Thanks for the vid. I'm sure it'll all be clear as water-clear epoxy once I see the diagram.
Don't laugh at my drawing.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/ ... trelay.jpg
Author:  BUCKET 636 [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:24 pm ]
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^ Your drawing is so breathtaking i think it should be hung in a gallery somewhere. :)
Love the car. 8)
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:19 pm ]
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Quote:
Don't laugh at my drawing.
Now why would I do a damn-fool thing like that? :shrug:

From your drawing I get this:

30: To source of ignition-on line voltage.
85: Relay trigger, to ground.
86: To vehicle side of (cut) original front turn signal feed wire.
87: Not used.
87a: To front turn signal filament via lamp side of (cut) original front turn signal feed wire.

So with no power on the vehicle side of the turn signal feed wire, the NC contact is closed and we have steady power feeding to the front turn signal filament, which therefore burns steadily. So far, so good.

When we signal for a turn, we have pulsing power (thanks to the T/S flasher) on the vehicle side of the front turn signal feed wire. Each time there's a pulse of power, the NC contact of the relay opens and interrupts feed to the front turn signal filament, which therefore flashes.

BUT!

We have an inversion effect caused by the NC relay: when the vehicle's turn signal feed wire is live, the relay is open and the turn signal filament is dead. When the vehicle's turn signal feed wire is dead, the relay is closed and the turn signal filament is live. So the front and rear turn signals will not flash in phase, they'll flash in opposite-phase (front turn on with rear turn off, rear turn on with front turn off). Tell me why I'm wrong. If I'm right, that violates the applicable regulations; the only exception to the requirement that all turn signals flash in phase is that the front side marker light (on '68-up cars so equipped) may flash in opposite-phase.
Author:  hellion_locdogg [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:23 pm ]
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Dam you and your big brain Dan.. :lol:
Author:  emsvitil [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:28 pm ]
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I don't think you can actually see the front and rear flashing at the same time (unless there's side markers flashing), so you can't tell if they are in phase or not...........................


:wink:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:55 pm ]
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Maybe not, but there are a lot of technical requirements that you can't easily verify at a glance. They're still there for good reasons. If there's a way to implement front turn signal DRLs with a reasonably small number of relays and components, without breaking other stuff (e.g., making the turn signal system noncompliant with Federal safety standards), then terrific. But so far I still have the impression that there is not, so I am sticking with the module method.
Author:  Rex Baker [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
BUT!

We have an inversion effect caused by the NC relay: when the vehicle's turn signal feed wire is live, the relay is open and the turn signal filament is dead. When the vehicle's turn signal feed wire is dead, the relay is closed and the turn signal filament is live. So the front and rear turn signals will not flash in phase, they'll flash in opposite-phase (front turn on with rear turn off, rear turn on with front turn off). Tell me why I'm wrong. If I'm right, that violates the applicable regulations; the only exception to the requirement that all turn signals flash in phase is that the front side marker light (on '68-up cars so equipped) may flash in opposite-phase.
Absolutely true to the 'out of phase' portion but I’m not worried about the FBI showing up. And, I have no idea (& I'm not going to look) but ‘phase’ may not mean the same time as 'simultaneous' in this case.

BECAUSE!

Dearborn was illegal about 38 years ahead of my first conversion (1999). 65-66 T-birds & 67-73 Cougars had electro mechanical sequential rear turn indicators (I fixed several, back in the day) that began their ‘event’ from the same electrical pulse that ‘flashed’ the front turn indicator. That signal began the motor turning which then contacted the first, then second and then third contact. And, guess what? It took a second for that first light’s contact to hit and therefore, they were out of phase with the front signal.

THEREFORE!

There is only one thing you (state your name here) as a citizen of (wherever you are). The next time you see one of these gross violators of the law, you (state your name here) must immediately use your gun to shoot out all the tires, preventing them from any further illegal operation. Failure to do so will result in you (state your name here) being placed on immediate, double-secret probation. :lol:

Oh, and don’t forget to shoot out those 67-69 Shelby’s tires, that have that feature, too.
:lol:

Now, back to engine assembly.

OOPS, that was supposed to be 35, not 38 years ago! My spelin are gud, gooder than my typing. :lol: :lol: :wink:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:25 am ]
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Absolutely true to the 'out of phase' portion
K. That's what I thought.
Quote:
‘phase’ may not mean the same time as 'simultaneous' in this case.
It does. Front and rear need to flash on and off in simultaneous, synchronous phase.
Quote:
Dearborn was illegal about 38 years ahead of my first conversion (1999). 65-66 T-birds & 67-73 Cougars had electro mechanical sequential rear turn indicators
Wasn't illegal at the time. Still isn't (current Mustangs) as long as certain timing conditions are met that allow it to meet the in-phase requirement.
Author:  Rex Baker [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:42 am ]
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Wasn't illegal at the time. Still isn't (current Mustangs) as long as certain timing conditions are met that allow it to meet the in-phase requirement.
Could you post those timing conditions for me? I bet I can meet them.

Though, I may have it covered already. I've only done it to 1965 to 1973 cars! :lol:

I think the legality on this one (I assume you're speaking of federal laws here) are right there with going 69 on an interstate that's posted 65. Yep, illegal & dangerous. Make sure you don't do that! :lol:
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