Slant Six Forum
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timing the slant
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54159		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  xjarhead [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:30 am ]
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Does that sound correct?
No, it doesn't.........what springs are on your distributor? Sounds like your missing the secondary spring and have the initial cranked up over 10 degrees.

Go to these pages and read them carefully. http://www.dutra.org/doug/draft-webpage ... ibutor.htm
I dont know yet what springs are there, a spring kit was mentioned above so I am trying to find out what all that is and where too get it.

I will check out those pages, thanks
This will help with the rebuilding the distributor http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46266
and here is where you can get a spring kit http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52750

Dave
Author:  1930 [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:02 pm ]
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That is going to help thanks, I am having only one issue that I am aware of at this point and that is dieseling after shutdown, if I dont let the engine sit there and idle( get hot ) than it shuts off no problem.

New rebuild on engine, I read alot of possibilities, I have my timing dialed in at about 3 BTDC, 750 rpm, 42 dwell.

I could use some help with this if anyone can.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:39 pm ]
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I have my timing dialed in at about 3 BTDC, 750 rpm,
That is why it diesels on shut down. When I used to run zero, which is per the manual for a stock 1974, it dieseled all the time. If you go up to 8 or 10 it will stop that. I run 12 degrees initial in the winter. Shut offs and starts are immediate......no cranking like you experience with stock specs......
Author:  1930 [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:30 am ]
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I have my timing dialed in at about 3 BTDC, 750 rpm,
That is why it diesels on shut down. When I used to run zero, which is per the manual for a stock 1974, it dieseled all the time. If you go up to 8 or 10 it will stop that. I run 12 degrees initial in the winter. Shut offs and starts are immediate......no cranking like you experience with stock specs......
Ok well I will try that than, cant say for sure that I have, I do know that running that much advanced the RPM would be too high so that is one of the reasons I brought it down too where it is, I also read other posts on here with same problem as mine and their fix was too bring the timing down too where I have it now.

I will try and re-adjust everything and will let you know how it goes. Thanks
Author:  1930 [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:35 am ]
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Can someone tell me why when I start it up, choke closes as it should but the RPMs are way high, and I mean high. I know its not good to start and engine at this high RPM.

Come too find out I do not have the factory carb ( so service manual is no use ) and cant seem to find instructions on adjusting the carb on-line.

It is a version of a similar carb as what was originally used but not quite the same.

Anyway there are enough differences that I am stuck on this.

EDIT: I just started it up, started and idled at 1600 rpm, typically the choke would open and the RPM would drop.

Not this time, choke opened, the RPMs increased to 2000, I played aroud with the accelerator a bit, nothing changed except that it seemed to go up maybe a bit more.

I became worried and then noticed that the exhaust manifold was glowing a bright red.

I looked on the back of the carb and I noticed there is a lever there that was sticking evidently, I have taken a picture but cannot post until tonight after work cause of the hosting service this site requires and my inability too use that site here at the shop.

I have a fan on the engine now trying to cool it down, Ill go back and re-adjust the timing as was suggested and see if that rids the diesling.
Author:  mattelderca [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:00 am ]
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The rpm increase while the choke comes off is normal. There should be a stepped cam that controls idle speed while on choke. That cam will only drop the rpm when you step on the throttle. As the choke butterfly opens the rpms will rise. As they rise you should be able to open the throttle lightly and the cam drops the speed down. There is an adjustment for this.

At this point you have so many small issues going on you really should take a step back. Do nothing more until you get the distributor set up properly. You obviously have issues in there and need someone to look at it for you. Once the dizzy is set up you can start on the carb. A change in one of them will effect how the other functions and they both need to be set up together, as one!

Do you know anyone that KNOWS how to tune a carbed engine? If not your best suggestion may be to find someone and ask for help. A good tuner can just listen and adjust things as needed by ear. At least to get things initially in sync. I know if I was in you neighbourhood I would certainly lend you a hand. The guys here will lead you down the right path, you just need to slow down and follow their advice one thing at a time.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:32 am ]
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1930,
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Can someone tell me why when I start it up, choke closes as it should but the RPMs are way high, and I mean high. I know its not good to start and engine at this high RPM.
Sure this is normal when your on the choke. Take a screw driver and lower the rpm. I adjust mine time to time so it doesn't go to high.

You will see two screws to adjust on the carb. One for the high rpm choke cam and one for the idle when your off the choke.

I also adjust the choke itself so it kicks off at about a mile from the house.

Even though my carb is different click on the red link below my name to view pictures of the carb. All carbs are set up with two adjustment screws for idle rpm. Any of the manuals in the Engine FAQ will also show this......feature and tell you how to adjust them. I remember when i bought my 77 Volare it was kind of high (2200 rpm) so I lowered it. No use wasting fuel! :) It only takes a few seconds to do....pull the air cleaner off so you can see what your doing until you get familiar with he carb. Sometimes the upper adjustment is hard to see with the air cleaner on.
Author:  1930 [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:17 pm ]
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Quote:
The rpm increase while the choke comes off is normal. There should be a stepped cam that controls idle speed while on choke. That cam will only drop the rpm when you step on the throttle. As the choke butterfly opens the rpms will rise. As they rise you should be able to open the throttle lightly and the cam drops the speed down. There is an adjustment for this.

At this point you have so many small issues going on you really should take a step back. Do nothing more until you get the distributor set up properly. You obviously have issues in there and need someone to look at it for you. Once the dizzy is set up you can start on the carb. A change in one of them will effect how the other functions and they both need to be set up together, as one!

Do you know anyone that KNOWS how to tune a carbed engine? If not your best suggestion may be to find someone and ask for help. A good tuner can just listen and adjust things as needed by ear. At least to get things initially in sync. I know if I was in you neighbourhood I would certainly lend you a hand. The guys here will lead you down the right path, you just need to slow down and follow their advice one thing at a time.
I know the picture is poor but I believe I am pointing too the stepped cam you are referring to with my small red screwdriver.

This is at this point what is giving me problems, this cam is not moving when I hit the fuel, it is sticking and is causing the RPMs too be so high.

Image

What is supposed to make this lever/cam move, is there supposed to be some sort of spring attached too it, I dont think so and yet it does not move unless I force it too move with my fingers. Its not sticky or in a bind, it just stays put though.

Taking Charlies advice and moved my timing too 10 or 12, the diesling has nearly stopped now so I believe I have the dist down.

Having someone look at it for me is not an option at this point. Anyway I prefer to figure/dicker with things on my own with help from these forums. It is how I am able to learn.

Thanks for the help and let me know what you can say about that cam
Author:  1930 [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:20 pm ]
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1930,
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Can someone tell me why when I start it up, choke closes as it should but the RPMs are way high, and I mean high. I know its not good to start and engine at this high RPM.
Sure this is normal when your on the choke. Take a screw driver and lower the rpm. I adjust mine time to time so it doesn't go to high.

You will see two screws to adjust on the carb. One for the high rpm choke cam and one for the idle when your off the choke.

I also adjust the choke itself so it kicks off at about a mile from the house.

Even though my carb is different click on the red link below my name to view pictures of the carb. All carbs are set up with two adjustment screws for idle rpm. Any of the manuals in the Engine FAQ will also show this......feature and tell you how to adjust them. I remember when i bought my 77 Volare it was kind of high (2200 rpm) so I lowered it. No use wasting fuel! :) It only takes a few seconds to do....pull the air cleaner off so you can see what your doing until you get familiar with he carb. Sometimes the upper adjustment is hard to see with the air cleaner on.
Ok Charlie, will post some more pics when I can, tomm the truck will be making its first long distance trip back to my home ( 18 miles ) wish me luck
Author:  Fopar [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:44 pm ]
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I think you need the small linkage from the choke to make the plate move to it's open to closed position.

Richard
Author:  mattelderca [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:39 pm ]
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Do the following With the engine off.
With the choke cold, set the choke ON by opening the throttle.
The choke butterfly should close and the stepped cam should move to it's highest position. Now, move the choke linkage (from the choke rod) until the butterfly opens all the way. Now, gently open the throttle while watching the stepped cam. As soon as the adjustment screw lifts off of the cam, the cam should drop to it's lowest setting.
If this does not happen, the carb is sticking in some fashion.

If you repeat this procedure only opening the choke a bit at a time, you should see the stepped cam move down a step at a time. If there is a screw that lands on the stepped cam, that will adjust your fast idle. Normally this will be quite high at first, then when the choke vacuum pull off comes in you drop to the next step manually.

As the engine normally warms up the idle will increase, the choke will open slowly, and as the rpms gain, you step gently on the throttle to drop the rpm's, down a step on the cam.

Get the timing in a better range (sounds like you have) then move to the carb. A timing change will adjust idle speed, so when you do one expact the other to fall off or increase.

You will eventually get there!
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:08 pm ]
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What is supposed to make this lever/cam move, is there supposed to be some sort of spring attached too it, I dont think so and yet it does not move unless I force it too move with my fingers. Its not sticky or in a bind, it just stays put though.
You can oil the pivot point to free it up. Two things pull the cam back. The choke arm as it warms up and the vacuum pull off. Both will pull the dfast idle cam back. Go out to the engine FAQ and download the manual and you will some good photos.
Author:  1930 [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:20 am ]
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Thanks for the last three posts, I will check everything mentioned and get back here.

Yesterday I was busy, drove the truck home without a single glitch except a very minor vibration that I am pretty certain is coming from the driveshaft. Not only did I not have it balanced but I also have a problem with the loops that connect front universal to tranny, they are slightly too large allowing the universal to float around just a bit instead of clamping it tightly.

Very definite lack of any sort of power as well but I expected that and making that a bit better will be something I am looking forward too.

Id like to find a super six set-up, Id like to put a lumpier cam in it ( if they are avail for these engine ) Id like to put a gear drive in it if avail????? ( I love that blower whine ) Upgrading the ignition.

I plan on adding the heat plate under carb like I have seen done, possibly some headers although I really like the stock manifold look, do a better job opening up the heads ect ect all in time over time, a long term project.

Id like too do things that wont kill my fuel mileage and I guess some of these things mentioned will do just that.

Its a 6000 pound truck and dont expect it too go fast and dont really care about that. I just love the six and would enjoy experimenting with some things.
Author:  1930 [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:27 am ]
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Just to clarify although its sounds like its already clear with you guys, this is the linkage that is giving me problems, experimenting with it yesterday briefly I stab the fuel one time, choke flips closed as it should, starts immediately ( no dieseling at all BTW any more ) if I hit the fuel again to try and allow the choke to open this little cam deal then drops down further making my RPMs rise.

The only way I can get the RPMs too drop is to open the hood and manually move it with my fingers. RPMs drop and all is good.

This picture is a spare similar carb I have laying around.

I dont know why? I need to look at it as you guys suggested and see whats going on.

I would like to fix this but at this point it might be moot, attached as well is a vacuum diagram that I was able to find in my service manual all the way in the back of the manual.

I guess I do not have the port needed for the vacuum advance so I need to start considering a different carb.

Can you guys recommend one for me keeping in mind that its going in a big heavy truck, fuel economy is important too me, servicing the carb ( availability of parts ) is also important.

Should I be looking for the recommended carb re-built thru Napa or should I be hunting in the salvage yards and re-build it myself?

Image

Image
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  I might...
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Should I be looking for the recommended carb re-built thru Napa or should I be hunting in the salvage yards and re-build it myself?
A carb from Napa will be a Cardone Reman of dubious quality. If I have time, I'll look in my storage unit I know I have an OEM Holley 1945 from a late manual transmission Dodge Truck with the vacc. advance.

-D.Idiot
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