Thanks! Today it's being taken back to the Shop and we're going to have to haggle the man. If it is the water pump, I'll be VERY surprised, I would rather swap that out than have it be engine build related.

--Reed
Shortly after the video I replaced the filter (shiny round thing, I don't know if it is a filter) on top of the valve cover with a pcv valve. That video is a month old and I've still been tweaking and moving things around, but that's pretty close to what it looks like now.

I'll be flushing the radiator too then, i didn't do that when the motor was rebuilt so who knows if stuff got in there.

I had that happen to my new rebuild and new radiator, just like Doc said.
Who would have know.....one of those lessons you need to learn.

So after taking the radiator out and turning it upside down and back flushing it for about 30 minutes all the junk came out.....and it was a lot!
The poor heater core suffered from the same fate.....no heat one winter until I back flushed it for about 45 minutes, switching directions to loosen up all the debris.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Could be this ^^; certainly worth a check. But it sounds like the overheating was there before and after the pump change; maybe the OP can confirm.

From reading all the symtoms and checks, etc., I am suspecting a crack in the block or head that has not been caught. Do you know for certain that the block and head were, or were not, pressure checked at rebuild? If it is not on the receipt or in the instructions to the machine shop, then it probably was not done; it is ususally not an automatic thing that is done. Also, a leaking head gasket will do this, but I would not suspect that first since the head gakset is new. However, not checking the block deck and head surface for straightness could make even a new head gasket not seal properly. Your symtom description points to a pretty severe case of overheating, so if this is the problem, then the crack or leak is pretty significant.

I would strongly encourage you to get a cooling system pressure tester and look for excess pressure, and/or pulsing pressure in the cooling system. You need to do this hot with a cooling system pressure tester to reveal cracks that open wider when hot. This will always cause overheating and overpressure to some degree, and in more severe cases, the system over pressure will quickly cause the rad cap to open and spew some coolant into the tank. It will also sometimes leave a small residual postive pressure in the cooling system that will prevent the normal negative pressure that develops as the coolant cools down, which is necessary to draw coolnt from the reservoir back into the cooling system. In that case, an overflow equipped cooling system will never clear itself of air as it normally does after several heating/cooling cycles; you can 'burp' it a thousand times and it will never get the air out.

IMO it is hidhly doubtful that bad timing will not cause this degree of overheating. The timign setting issues are not making sense, BTW; it shoudl be settable to whatever. And yes, the small exhasut wil nto casue over heating.

Alright, here's the update. I went on vacation for a few days and left the car with a mechanic who was going to look at it.

The Rad's clean, Water pump is good, the timing is now set thanks to the distributor upgraded to electronic ignition along with a stronger ignition coil..
According to this one guy, he said the engine shakes too much and compression is at 120, too low for a newly rebuilt engine.

He pointed out a few things. Told me to get a fan shroud, so I did and later on I'll see if it helps out a bit.

Told me that my exhaust manifold had a leak so the heat was escaping and heating up the intake and perhaps causing the fuel to get "too" hot, here's a pict of the "before",

He replaced the bolts and made a good seal.

But all in all the engine was still shaky and told me that it was probably overbored to 0.060 and it will overheat no matter what. (he hasn't take off the head to visually check) What was also interesting to hear was that the head was a stock and that it was never rebuilt. So I'm not really sure what was done to it and I'm already a bit pissed off that I got scammed by the last guy. But all I'm still thinking that it's a bad engine.

120 psi compression is a bit low for a rebuilt motor. However, the 225 engine in my brother's 83 Dodge van was also rebuilt and overbored .060 and it does not overheat. It doesn't even come close to overheating, even driving 70 MPH uphill on a hot day. I don't trust your mechanic and wouldn't go to him/her anymore.

The shaky motor, overheating, and low compression makes me suspect that the camshaft was not degreed properly when it was installed.

I would also double check the valve lash and if the head was truly not rebuilt. If the head was not rebuilt then the water passages in the head may be blocked which may be leading to overheating.

Start with a good valve adjustment. If that doesn't solve any problems, pull the head and check the condition of the coolant passages. Rebuild or replace the head. If that doesn't solve the problems, double check the cam installation.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Im going to have to second a cracked head or block, or head gasket... If the system is sealed (has a overflow res) and your still adding water to it on a regular basis it has to be going somewhere... Is it straight water, or a coolant/water mix? Water by itself has a very low boil point and will evaporate quickly and cause cooling system damage very rapidly...

My other question... Your mehcanic said compression is 120, is that 120 on all cylinders, or did he only check one cylinder? Being that the head was never rebuilt, there is a high possibility its warpped or cracked. Or valves arnt sealing on one or more cylinders. If the gasket didnt seal, then that could cause low compression, poor idle, overheating and constant boil-over...

As for the timing, Id imagine it would be pretty hard to set accurately to any base setting if the car wont idle, and its overheating when your trying... I would have to suggest finding another mechanic. Doesnt take much to check compression on all cylinders, check cooling system pressure and verify cam timing with a piston stop....

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"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

You might have left the car with someone, but he can't be called a mechanic.
That depends on how the compression test was done. Engine at full operating temperature, all spark plugs removed, choke and throttle fully open? Or not?
BS, BS, BS. His facts stopped at "has a leak". Everything after that is malarkey.
More bulk wrap from this "mechanic". Where's he getting his guess that it was overbored 0.060"? And even if it was, that certainly doesn't mean "it will overheat no matter what". What this joker said actually translates to "I have no idea and I'm too lazy and/or ignorant to diagnose the problem, so I'll make stuff up".
And this he knows without taking off the head to visually check, eh? More BS.
You're getting scammed by this guy.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Does the einge havae normal power?

If stock /6 pistons, then 120 is OK; especially if even across all cylinders.

Has anyone run a cooling system pressure test yet? This is test numero 1 or 2 with these symptoms.

I've just had the cars for about a few days now, and drove it to Folsom and back to Sacramento along with a few errands on a 99 degree day. It didn't overheat. I know that whatever Timing, valve adjustments and the electronic ignition upgrade this guy did worked for the time being. but I'm still going to install the shroud I bought and see how much more it helps.

The engine feels weak, I don't know how strong it's supposed to feel cause this is my first slant 6. and he did check all cylinders and they were all giving 120~ compression.

No cooling system pressure yet. But i know that it flows well through the rad, i can see the water rushing as I rev the engine.

If the engine block is ok at .060 then does it lead to the head not being rebuilt correctly? I do suspect this.

The problem I've had in Sac was finding someone who knows how to properly rebuilt engines and heads for the slant 6. I took it to CASCAR machine shop to get the head redone (about a year ago) before the engine rebuild and nope, useless there were still problems with the engine. A few months later was when I decided to have a whole engine rebuild and I've just had to deal with a long string of people who don't want to or know how work on this engine. I can only do so much since I'm a computer tech, I can't rebuild engines, but I know how to get cars running.

Also I don't have to add water the car doesn't leak it or consume it. I am using water but only because when it used to overheat it would spew out all the coolant and waste my $$$. As soon as the heating problem is somewhat solved I'll switch back to coolant.

Well, that is all interesting. Is the temp guage now normal? Still, an .060 overbore should not have anything to do with overheating per se.

When you say this feels weak, what are you comparing it to? And what car do you have? (Sorry I missed that somewhere.)

And re-read the part about runing coolnat vs water; you are causing yourself poorer cooling with straight water. At least add some 'water-wetter' ....

As far as not losing water, that is a good sign that there are no cracks/leaks but not a guarantee; you can have a leak but not lose coolant; it's kinda rare but I have had that issue.

LOL I'm comparing it to a 2011 Nissan Leaf. It feels slow compared to my electric car. but a lot faster than the Prius C we have, although that thing is pretty slow.

The Temp gauge is normal now, and maybe it wasn't the .060 overbore, but no doubt that engine feels bad because it idles terrible (shakes) and everyone who's looked at it tells me to replace that engine. even with another slant 6, one that hasn't been touched.

In the meantime, I'll be putting coolant ASAP but first I need to add that shroud so I'll post an update and video when it's all done so you guys can see what I've been doing to it. I'm kind of happy the nigtmare's almost over but I shouldn't talk too soon, I still need to replace that FAN as well, I'm putting in a Flexfan, (I know how some of you guys hate them) so we'll see how that goes.

Here's a comparison, any thing is better than the old 4 blades right?


Making the shroud fit, it's pretty hard to find an original I'll admit.


If you look closely, you'll see there's also an electric fan in the front.

Stock cam?

Not surprised if is runs rough; that carb is kinda big and would need to be tuned well. I've used a 500 cfm 2 bbl on a smaller engine but smooth idling was not the point....! What has been done for carb tuning? Do you have a vacuum guage? I would connnect one on and see what you have for idle vacuum level. There are a number of things that can cause your rough idle that have nothing to do with internal engine problems; a vacuum leak would do it, as well as the carb being off, erratic distributor....all of these are fixable/improvable from the outside. With the compressions being even, I would at this time rule out the cylinders. Head must be basically OK too to have these consistent compresssions across all cylinders.

Did you ever figure out or get an explanation of why the timing could not be set? Where did the most recent mechanic set it to, and did he report any related timing issues? What would you think of buying a timign ligth ad checking timing for your self? I suspect you can develop the skills for this...

Keep an eye on the flexfan; the onse I have tried in the past all failed with cracks in the blades.

It seems that unfortunately your engine is a pretty mis matched build that somebody did before you bought the car. The guy you took it to seems to have cured your overheating issues,but as far as a rough idle,low power and timing that is hard to set really leads me to think its probably time to go right through it if you are that keen. You have no idea what is inside that can of worms. I don't think your present mechanic is trying to do you wrong,sure,the over bore comment is not a typical issue with slants overheating,but,I've seen standard bore blocks crack due to severe core shift in the castings....it's rare but it happens. I sympathise with you paying a mechanic to do the work for you,that is a very expensive way to maintain an old car. I paid serious coin to have work done on my parents car when I lived interstate and it was certainly not what I would consider a decent job....never again for me.

Yeah well the engine looks mismatched cause I was the one who added the carb and all the other fixings. I'm learning and I do have a timing light. I've checked it myself and have tried to set it but always ran into the issue that it was too high or too low and I could never have it stay where it was supposed to. Right now it's as close as it can be.

I'll take a video of that too so you guys can see how the timing mark dances all over the place. I'll be working on it today after I come home from the office.