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Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61640		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Didn't have time to run the car tonight, but I'll try to take a look at the manifold vacuum and exhaust sound tomorrow.

I pulled the spark plugs. NGK ZFR5N, all gapped to .035 since it's still running points ignition. 6 on the left, 1 on the right. #6 is black as coal.

Image

This car may get electronic ignition eventually, but it's very much 3rd in line compared to my other slant cars. It'll have to wait until I upgrade the racecar to HEI and take the castoff parts. For now the dizzy has a new set of breaker points and a new condenser... though to be honest, I don't remember when I actually installed the points and can't confidently say I gapped them correctly.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Plugs № 2, 3, and 4 look okeh. Plugs № 1, 5, and 6 don't. № 5 suggests this what we're seeing is oil-fouling, rather than fuel-fouling, but take a closer look: are those black plugs black and dry/powdery, or black and (at all) moist/gummy?
Author:  Dart270 [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Outer cylinders tend to run a bit richer, but that is a bit extreme to see that much variation. Rich overall, or misfiring on outer cyls? Tight valve lash might exacerbate richness or create misfire at idle or low RPM.

Lou
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
The plugs are all dry/powdery. What you're seeing on #5 is just a bright spot where I knocked off the crud when pulling the spark plug out. Interesting that the outside cylinders would be richer. I always thought un-vaporized fuel would make the middle cylinders more rich. Is there typically a large difference in temperature between the middle and outside cylinders?

Valve lash is good; I checked it after recording those videos and the worst example was off by maybe .003". Afterwards, there was no discernible difference in symptoms. I also verified the heat riser valve is operating freely.

New plugs and wires. Newish cap and rotor, but after reading that huge science project thread by DonPal I have limited confidence in the integrity of those parts. I'll probably pull the dizzy this weekend to check the points and see if anything stands out as far as cap and rotor interference.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
The HEI swap really is well worth the cost of the distributor and a module and a little bit of time. :D :D
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Quote:
The plugs are all dry/powdery. What you're seeing on #5 is just a bright spot where I knocked off the crud when pulling the spark plug out. Interesting that the outside cylinders would be richer. I always thought un-vaporized fuel would make the middle cylinders more rich. Is there typically a large difference in temperature between the middle and outside cylinders?
You've got a fuel distribution issue, probably not a temperature issue, though what have you got for a thermostat, and are you sure it's working? What kind of carburetor are you running? Does the heat riser valve work correctly?
Author:  slantzilla [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
If you just ran the motor in your shop and didn't drive it to put a load on it those plug colors will be way off anyway. They will black like that when cold, and need a load to clean them off.

How does that thing smell when it's running?
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Quote:
If you just ran the motor in your shop and didn't drive it to put a load on it those plug colors will be way off anyway. They will black like that when cold, and need a load to clean them off.

How does that thing smell when it's running?
After the initial driveway break-in I drove the car for about 20 miles, with a mix of highway and city driving. (I just went back and checked; my initial guess of 50 miles was off.) Since then, I've only started it up to move it around my driveway and perform the troubleshooting described in this thread. Call it ~2 hours of runtime with no load since I drove it last. Would you still expect the colors to be off?

The exhaust actually smells and looks normal, as far as I can tell. No smoke and no eyeball-stinging richness. However, the exhaust gas feels moist and there was water dripping out of the pipe when I checked. It need to run it longer to see if this clears up when everything's good and hot, since I was pressed for time this weekend. Hopefully I'm not looking at a head gasket leak. I also need to see if there are bubbles in the coolant. No sign of problems on the oil dipstick, at least.

To partially answer sixinthehead's question: while I don't hear the misfire in the exhaust, I do feel it as a pulse when I hold my hand in front of the pipe. I haven't tested the intake manifold vacuum as I seem to have lost my vacuum gauge, but I'll be picking up a new one today.

Dan, I don't remember what thermostat I used. I was in a hurry getting this engine ready for a parade back in April and haven't really touched it since then. I hope I wasn't in such a hurry that I didn't install one... I guess I'll pull the top hose today and check.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Normal exhaust from a healthy engine should have plenty of water in it. The two main combustion products are CO2 and H2O!

Lou
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Oh, one thing I forgot. I pulled the distributor cap this weekend and found a gouge on the inside. Picture linked below. These parts aren't anywhere close to new; I was also wrong about that, earlier. I probably pulled these out of the spare parts bin when I was throwing everything together. Not sure if this damage is from a previous use, or what. There was copper residue in the gouge, but this rotor and shaft didn't seem to have nearly enough play for the rotor tip to have made contact here.

https://i.imgur.com/bUqKfm8.jpg
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Cap is a low-quality item. Rotor, probably, too. Read this (whole) thread.
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Yeah, I know. Like I said, I grabbed a handful of used parts to get this car running in a hurry. I do need to re-read that thread (mostly for racecar purposes), but if you don't think this current issue is ignition-related, I'll probably be focusing elsewhere for now.

Haven't touched the car this week, been too busy at work trying to get ahead before I go out of town this weekend. More updates probably coming next week.
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Honing Lifter Bores... in the car?
Been busy with work, holidays, and being sick for a week in between, but I finally got out to work on the car again. Turns out in my rush to get this car running I didn't install a thermostat. I'm sure I told myself I'd throw one in later, but I thoroughly forgot to make note of it.

I've got a 180° Stant Superstat on order, so we'll see how it runs after I throw that in.
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