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AC Delete
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66547		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  volaredon [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Quote:

Then....with modern cars you are obligated to use AC because you can't drive with the windows down.

I like AC as much as anyone, but it has its costs.
Really? I haven't seen a vehicle yet that I can't put into gear with the windows open but these ones that stall at every stop light is downright STUPID no matter how "new fangled" the "tech" is that allows (and dictates) it.
Author:  DadTruck [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Don I agree with you. The newest vehicle I own is the 96 Sonoma, but I have rented a new Nissan Altima, a Dodge Durango and a Ford Edge, with all of them the windows were operational with the vehicle in motion.

Greg Con, please identify the vehicle that you are speaking of that locks the windows up when the car is in gear. I would like to check that out.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
I'd like to avoid them! :D
Author:  DadTruck [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Relax Rick, there are no cars like that.
Author:  volaredon [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
At work I have seen as new as 2020 ford pickups and haven't seen that yet.
Author:  slantzilla [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
My Ram will operate with all the windows open. It will not switch out of Park with a door open though.

My gray Ram had the shutdown system at stoplights. It annoyed me at first, but after awhile I didn't notice it anymore. My red one does not have that feature.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Hey guys, I'm just being a "smart ass" about the windows.
Author:  slantzilla [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Hopefully everyone knew it.......
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
The "Box" in question in the original poster's Question... Highlighted in read is the Expansion Valve / Expansion Block.

Greg
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Quote:
there is a world of difference between the AC compressor most Slant Sixes were born with and the AC compressor of a modern vehicle. The modern AC compressor uses little power and is usually 6 or 8 vanes which give a very smooth operation. The old AC compressor (R2) is a mini-Harley Davidson engine...a V-twin that takes some power to run and has a pretty chunky rotation.
That's half-right. The 4- to 7-cylinder (not vane) compressors in common use now are much smoother (and scroll-type "zero-cylinder" compressors even smoother still) than the Chrysler, York, and Tecumseh 2-cylinder compressors, which exert very peaky loads with resultant noise, vibration, and belt issues. But there is not a significant difference in the overall amount of power required to drive the compressor; it takes a certain amount of work to compress a certain amount of refrigerant to a certain degree, no matter what kind of machine you use to do the job.
Quote:
Who thinks a modern 1.6L 4 cylinder engine would be able to idle in Drive with an R2 hanging off it?
I do, but only 'cuz it would. :mrgreen:
Quote:
Even on a V8, when you turn on the R2 you can tell something happened under the hood.
Even on a brand-new 2022 car of any engine cylinder count, when you turn on the A/C you can tell something happened under the hood.
Quote:
In the olden days, it was a rule of thumb that AC would cost you 2MPG.
…where "rule of thumb" here means "made-up random number pulled out of thin air". I'm not saying you made it up, just that it belongs filed with all those other random made-up numbers (change your oil every 3,000 miles, warm up your car for 10 minutes in the morning, etc).
Quote:
nothing like the old refrigerants which would form ice on the vents.
Newer refrigerants do at least as well, sometimes better, in a system appropriately configured for them. I used to be a staunch advocate of R12, and for some years I flirted with one of the zeotropic blends (R406A/Autofrost), but every time I thought I perceived a cooling deficit due to R134a, it was in fact caused by something else—most often an inadequate condenser. Fix that, and R134a does a terrific job. Most opinions that R134a is poopy stem from half-baked conversions of R12 systems that were often underspecified to begin with, and/or had an impossible job of trying to cool a poorly-insulated, leaky solar oven on wheels. Arizona Mobile Air did a big refrigerants-and-condensers test that nicely illustrates the point. Look at the vent temps, yes, and also the high-side pressures. Quick spot check: 110° ambient, 100° in-car temp, R134a refrigerant. Tube/fin condenser gave 49° vent temps, 32 PSI low side, 321 PSI high side. Parallel-flow condenser gave 42° vent temps, 27 PSI low side, 240 PSI high side. That's 15% lower vent temp, 15% lower low-side pressure, and 25% lower high-side pressure by upgrading the condenser.
Quote:
Luckily, our scientists discovered the Earth was within 3 hours of total explosion
Got a suggestion for which planet we might move to when we're done trashing this one?

As for whether windows or A/C is better for fuel economy, see here and here and here, then pick which answer you like best.
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
I never said the windows would lock when the car is rolling....although I would predict the Biden-voting sort of populace would be all for that.

What I mean by 'you can't drive with the windows down' is that modern vehicles will buffet your ears with turbulence so as to make you unwilling to drive the car that way. If you don't believe me....and have never tried it yet (?)....go drive at 70MPH with your windows down and your head will take enough of a beating that you (hopefully) will give up within half a minute. On the other hand, roll down the windows at 70MPH in your 1967 New Yorker and it's actually pretty pleasant. Night and day difference.

I have little time or patience to wade into all of Dan's 'arguments' but suffice it to say modern compressors and AC systems are notably more efficient than those of 50 years ago....that translates to a lower HP demand. Period. Much like a car of today requires less HP to push it through the wind, an AC system of today requires less HP to run. Similarly, modern refrigerants are used not because of performance but because of emotional science.

Different refrigerants have different levels of efficiency. If we REALLY wanted to use a good refrigerant, we'd use ammonia. But the risk of death, apparently, has done away with that. But if you were to remove that threat, ammonia is king.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Quote:
What I mean by 'you can't drive with the windows down' is that modern vehicles will buffet your ears with turbulence so as to make you unwilling to drive the car that way.
Got it! Thanks! :D
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Quote:
Period
Ya know, GregCon, for someone who likes to kvetch about what a knowitall I am…!

I'm just sayin', is all.
Author:  Michael [ Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
I see some very informed and researched points being made here (SSD) and then I see someone unwilling to engage in the discourse. And then there is your pathetic appeal for approval on political grounds. Hello, none of us true Slant Six people want to hear about your politics. We are a very small community that focuses on our cars/engines and you are trying to divide us even more? Please, just stop.
Author:  volaredon [ Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AC Delete
Quote:
The "Box" in question in the original poster's Question... Highlighted in read is the Expansion Valve / Expansion Block.

Greg
I was looking at the block just in front and slightly offset from there with the 2 wires coming off of it.
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