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Brief history, complete with errors of the turbo Dart.
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40429		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:35 pm ]
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I'm gonna hold you to that!! :D :o Looking forward to it...

Lou
Author:  Sam Powell [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:14 am ]
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The inter cooler and supply hoses are in place. The return hoses will run outside the inner fender on the passenger's side and pop back through the inner fender just across from the TB. Do you think PCVP pipe which is designated for hot water deliver, and has a rated temp of 180 degrees would be OK to use in those places outside the engine bay? Or should I get aluminum or copper?

Sam
Author:  Dart270 [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:59 am ]
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Sounds fine to me.

Lou
Author:  Pierre [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:37 am ]
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Err, do you mean PVCP pipe? As in the white sprinkler and drain pipes you may find under a sink? I wouldn't put that under my hood. I don't think its meant for sun exposure. Also I recall reading up on it when doing my air compressor piping - any chemicals such as oil will compromise its integrity. I would just use exhaust tubing. Isn't that commonly used for turbo/intercooler plumbing?
Author:  Sam Powell [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:23 pm ]
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The exhaust pipe is a good idea. The pipe I was thinking about is not the drain pipe, but pipe that is designed for hot water service. It is thicker walled, and a material that handles heat better. Also, I would not put it under the hood either if I were to use it. This is for a section of intercooler piping outside the engine compartment just under the inner fender, but up out of the way of the wheel. We are only talking about 2 feet, and maybe less.

But, I like the idea of the exhaust pipe. It is cheap, strong , and readily available. Prior to this I have used aluminum pipe sold by after market turbo performance companies.

Sam
Author:  turboram [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:33 am ]
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I have used CPVC pipe for turbo piping before it works fine and takes engine heat and gasoline it was on a draw through setup and worked for years till I blew the wimpy little import again.be prepared for everyone to give you crap"are you pluming a toilet","plummers shouldn't work on cars",and many like comments
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:05 am ]
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Thanks for the encouragement on the pipe. I will check out the plumbing department. I need tubing, or pipe that is 2 1/2" in diameter. Can you tell me anything about the effects of reducing the intercooler pipe at one point in the line? Is that something I should avoid? It would be easier to get through a particular place under the fender if I could neck it down to 2 1/4". Does this, in effect, reduce the entire tube to the effective size of 2 1/4"? Or, does this have a venture effect and simply speed up the flow for a moment there?

Sam
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:34 am ]
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I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just saying it's not a good idea. I've randomly googled and found 2 manufacturer's PDF's to chemical resistance - both say not recommended for motor oil or gasoline. People have gotten away with using it for air compressor plumbing too but there are plenty of reports of it failing - and when it does, its a big catastrophe. I'm all for thinking outside the box, but this isn't ideal.
Author:  wjajr [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:02 pm ]
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Plumbing PVC pipe comes in ½, ¾, 1, 1 ½, 2, 3, 4 inch diameters on up. Electrical PVC conduit, the gray stuff, comes in the above sizes plus 2 ½ inch, and in two schedules; 40 & real thick 80. Electrical Code book lists 50* C ambient temperature as maximum allowed.

Where there is not going to be any 90* C rated conductors housed by this material, and it has a flame rating, which I can’t find at the moment, it could possibly be superior to plumbing PVC. I’m not recommending this stuff for your intended use, just saying there is a 2 ½ cross section available.

Another choice is Electrical Metallic Tubing (EMT), it can be had in ½, ¾, 1, 1 ¼, 1 1/2, 2, 2 ½, 3 inch cross sections, thin walled, is easily bendable, and is galvanized unlike exhaust pipe.
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:43 pm ]
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Your right I don't believe they use galvanized exhaust tubing anymore. Aluminized is the norm now, supposedly better then galvanized. Better yet stainless.
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:32 pm ]
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Quote:
Thanks Greg, I'll be in Haggarstown, but not Carlisle

Sam
Very cool! looks forward to meeting you!


Are you bringing the dart?


Greg
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:49 pm ]
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks Greg, I'll be in Haggarstown, but not Carlisle

Sam
Very cool! looks forward to meeting you!


Are you bringing the dart?


Greg
I have every intention of bringing the Dart. I must get it back together, but that seems very doable right now. I have the plumbing almost done, and must simply put the grill and air dam back on after that. There is about 2 feet of tubing left to figure out. That will become clearer once I drill the hole in the inner fender and stick the tubing through. Then there is only about a foot left, and I need to figure out if it needs to be 45, or 90 degrees bend, or something in between. Those bends could actually be made by the silicone hose if it seemed best to do so. That stuff is pretty expensive; maybe double the cost of pre-bent stainless.. We will see. Of course t his iteration does not have to be the final configuration. All I need to do is get it running for now well enough to get me up to Haggarstown and back.

Is that hyper pack new? I don;t remember seeing that in older signature photos.

Sam
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:57 pm ]
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Cool. You can get it done - pleany of time.


Nope, I have had that manifold on there 10 years.

Bought of Doug D. in 98-99



Greg
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:05 am ]
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I bet that thing runs well. Are you happy with it. I hope you bring it to the meet at Haggarstown. I need to get the specifics on the times and location. Can you believe I have never been to Mason Dixon before? It is only about 45 minutes from me in good traffic.

I got everything back together. Thenew, larger intercooler is now in. The bumper, grill, and air dam are back on, and the waste gate actuator is in it's new location. I had to twist the turbo housing to accommodate the new output tubing placement, and this changed the wastegate mounting by about an inch.

I got this all done too late last night to test drive it. I don't like to check out my day's work before I go to bed. The results can keep me awake for either positive or negative reasons. I just go to bed assuming all is going to work, and get a good night's sleep. I'll supply feedback as soon as I get some.

Oh yeah, I went to Pep boys and bought a cheapo, gee whiz bling, bling 45 degree 3" air tube, and a pair of 2.5-3" adapters to finish out the supply line. I don't expect it to hold up, but it got me going. I will reconfigure things soon with better materials.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:33 pm ]
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I took the Dart out between rain storms this evening, and it ran great. Not just well, but wonderfully. I don't care how fast, or what times it turns, it just feels "right", FINALLY. And with the plumbing on the wastegate set up the way Joshua suggested, it settled in at 8 psi and holds that steady all the way to 5 grand, with no pre-ignition. I am simply elated.

I want to thank all those on this forum who have nurtured me through this project. You are too numerous to mention or remember the names of, but you can all feel a personal pride in its success. There is absolutely no way I could have done this without your support, encouragement, and friendships. It is now a car one can drive without undue nervousness. I would absolutely drive it accross country with just a month or so more of shakedown. I still need to get better hoses in the inter cooler line. And maybe MS II to get an idle control on it. But honestly, I could live without that.

Here is an interesting things to think about. Two years ago, when I turned this car over to John, I felt like everything I tried failed. I sort of felt snake bit. I know this is not totally true, but that was my feeling. And in fact, on the most fundamental ways, I had made some serious errors that kept me from getting things right. I was beginning the think a custom car that worked well was just a myth.

Now, two years later, everything seems to just work out right. Everything Ihave tried in the last 2 months has worked, and worked well. It seems I am in the zone now. What is the difference? I am still the same person, with essentially the same way of thinking and the same skills and talents. And, the same lack of talent and skills in some areas. So, why two years ago was I completely out of sync, seemingly trying to force a square peg into a round hole, and this year everything is flowing along swimmingly? Curious, don't you think.

Thanks again. It is all refinement from here on out. I will stay in touch, but this thread has about run its course, I think. I will update from time to time as real improvements are made.

Sam
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