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| eliminating VR signal noise? https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46282 |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:54 am ] |
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I take back the part about not feeling as good to me. I started it this morning, and it seemed at least as good. I will track down a none magnetic .008" feeling gauge of some type and check that tonight. I must have been in a pessimistic, bummed out mood last night. Sam |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:58 am ] |
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A post-it note is .004" So double one up. |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:15 am ] |
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I'm pretty sure the current gap is bigger than .008". Sam |
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:40 am ] |
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Yeah, I learned a while ago to just put stuff down when I'm tired, and go to bed. It's amazing how simple some insurmountable problem seems once you've had some rest. I also don't work on things when I'm upset or feel bad. I personally think that I will build my bad vibes into what I'm working on and it will be an unhappy machine from then on. Just George's goofy mechanthromorphization philosophy 101.  Back to fixing the VR 
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:13 am ] |
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Another note on that pickup... if your MS box is where you can see it, you can see what that pickup is doing while you crank it by the injector LEDs on the front. Your MS will skip 3 tach pulses at the start, because it is measuring the distance (time) between reluctor vanes. (It uses this information to predict timing advance - I think you were asking about this earlier). So you should see a delay, after you turn the key, one, two, three, then pop pop pop = LEDs flashing. On mine, I got one, two, three, pop...pop pop...pop... .... ... pop... you get the idea. That is what made me change the reluctor air gap. Once I did then no more missed signals. That information is what is causing me to suggest checking the air gap. Why 3 pulses skipped? Because that is what is set in your configuration in your .msq file. I think that's a default. That's what I'm using too. That's also why it does not start instantly when you turn the key. |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:17 pm ] |
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My MS box does not have the LEDs. Sam |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:53 pm ] |
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I hope you are not getting tired of this thread. I closed up the reluctor gap tonight, from around 10-11 to a tight 008. I then sent two data logs to Gunpilot who look them over to see if things are better. I did not drive it, as it is raining and thundering. But did send him idle and rev logs. Sam |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:41 am ] |
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George, did I ever tell you my story about getting stuck in a prairie dog colony on the desert outside Casa Grande when I was 16? If you are interested I will post this in the social section. BTW I buy your theory about putting your bad vibes into whatever you are working on when you are tired and bummed. Sam |
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:43 am ] |
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Quote: My MS box does not have the LEDs.
Ah, I didn't know the 3.57s did not come with them. Bummer, as they can really help with tuning/troubleshooting. Sam I did not get a chance to look at the datalogs last night, I will tonight when I get home. If there's any interest I will try to write up what I'm seeing so it's understandable. I find on re-reading many of my posts that I rarely manage to write what it was I was trying to say. Humm... stuck in a prairie dog town. That could be interpreted several ways. We may need to hear about that. |
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:55 am ] |
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I'm wrong again. Your 3.57 board is the production version of the V3 board. It does have the VR signal processing circuitry, contrary to what I said earlier (now edited.) . But even more importantly, it has a VR adjustment potentiometer built onto it. Duh. I should have done my homework before now. Holy smokes, a whole new set of possibilities has opened up. 
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:40 am ] |
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My processor was modified by Peter for the HEI. This is hardwired mods. The VR part of the board is no longer in use. It's a long story. Sam |
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:09 pm ] |
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Quote: My processor was modified by Peter for the HEI. This is hardwired mods. The VR part of the board is no longer in use. It's a long story.
Ah, the plot thickens.
Sam |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:29 am ] |
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The VR signal line feeds the HEI which converts the VR signal from analogue to digital. The digital signal is fed to the MS ECU, which sends timing impulses back to the HEI, which then fires the coil at the right time. It is very similar to the way the stock GM engine management system worked in the 90's. It worked will for them. My 95 Corvette was flawless in that regard. So the challenge now with this set up is getting a clean VR signal to the HEI module. AFter that, things should be cool. When you get time take a look at the data logs and see if it looks better than the first one I sent please. And thanks. I am driving it to work, today and on to a cruise this evening. It is all so close the car will not even get warm, so no time for baseline tuning or data logs.My commute is 4 miles, and the cruise is half way home in the evening. Sam |
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:57 am ] |
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I looked at the data logs this AM - The first log, which is the longer of the two, was when it was cool and still shows some spikes. The second, which is after it was warm, shows no spikes. It is short, however, so it's hard to say if the problem is cured on that short sample. It looks better, however. I'm going to take a look at the VR to HEI wiring to see what the setup is. |
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| Author: | GunPilot [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:08 am ] |
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Quote: The VR signal line feeds the HEI which converts the VR signal from analogue to digital. The digital signal is fed to the MS ECU, which sends timing impulses back to the HEI, which then fires the coil at the right time. It is very similar to the way the stock GM engine management system worked in the 90's. It worked will for them. My 95 Corvette was flawless in that regard.
I read up on the MSII/V3/MSExtra/HEI ignition setup and now I think I fully understand the setup you are working with. So the challenge now with this set up is getting a clean VR signal to the HEI module. AFter that, things should be cool. When you get time take a look at the data logs and see if it looks better than the first one I sent please. And thanks. Sam Sam, the quote above assumes that the HEI and the associated wiring to the MS box is working perfectly. I don't think we can afford that assumption right now. Keep in mind that the datalog is only seeing what the MS box is seeing. So with your setup, it only sees the output from the HEI module. So we are not looking at the VR signal at all really! So, realizing that, we can also look at everything in between the HEI and the MS, including the HEI module itself. Take a look at the wires between the HEI module and the MS box, and contemplate swapping that HEI module out to test that. Once again I come back to that HEI module ground. I know you have a dedicated wire to the block. You might try changing that wire to a different location too. For anyone who may be following this thread, the diagram below illustrates Sam's hardware setup: 
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