Slant Six Forum :: Aerodynamics of front end.

He didnâ€™t bite on the old Prius idea 99, perhaps he will get some wind in his sails with this one:

Would a big fan pointed at the area in question be the way to help in this process?

Sam

Just 44,000 miles, and four Maine winters to rust suspension componentsâ€¦

I should think that adapting some sort of filler between back side of bumper and body would help,

Quote:

I should think that adapting some sort of filler between back side of bumper and body would help,

I think fender skirts would partially eliminate the need for this. As it would limit the air flow along the side of the car, that potentially at certain speeds flow behind the tires to the back side of the bumper. The filler like you suggest would help flow the air under the car.

Author:	sandy in BC [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:27 am ]
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I used powder snow to develop my spoilers. With snow nothing happens until about 35mph ....then all of a sudden it starts to move off the car....or it adds to the car. The front or sloped part of the hood blows off first ,,,,,then the windshield....then the roof. It adds snow to the trunklid and rear valance.....and the base of the windhield. The trunk can be full to the roofline....and the rear valance can have up to 18" added to it (covering the taillamps). Observations on snow control mods : Lowering the front of the car 2" helps considerably. Full disc wheel covers really help with airflow around and behind the wheel wells. The roof foil was very effective considering its slight visual footprint. Raising the rear of the hood 3/4" helped at the base of the windshield. I will try and find a better view of the rear spoilers.....

Author:	emsvitil [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:42 pm ]
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Do a search at www.autospeed.com

Author:	sandy in BC [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:16 pm ]
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click to view full-version top foil = aftermarket from mid 60s Chevelle SW Trunk spoiler from late 70s Aspen SW

Author:	sandy in BC [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:30 pm ]
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http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_109778/article.html

Author:	Sam Powell [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:23 pm ]
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Thanks Sandy, Was that the spoiler seen in the small earlier photo, and how did it effect the snow pile up? I read the Kamm back bit, and it seems like maybe an effect to try and emulate. Although, I am not sure I wish to change the profile of the car that much. I wonder how much drag there is on the blunt rear of these cars. Thinking. Of course I am working on the front at this point. Sam

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Author:	rlklaus [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:33 pm ]
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I would think that some sort of side skirts might help. Our new batch of semi trailers has them and keeping the air from under the trailer has helped. I was sceptical at first but the portion of the fleet that uses the skirted trailers has jumped 1/2 to a full mile per gallon. With a semi that's about 15%. Not sure how this idea would translate to a Dart, but any little bit should help. If it was me, I'd use a thick piece of rubber, and attach it to the inside of the rocker panels. Side skirts and an air dam up front, should create quite a vacuum under the car, and make it stick to the road pretty good a high speeds. Oh. I'd use rubber, because you are going to drag the skirts on driveways.

Author:	Sam Powell [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:23 am ]
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I've seen those skirts on trailers and wondered how effective they were. Of course a trailer sits WAY up there, which most likely makes a bigger difference. Thanks for the input. Sam

Author:	wjajr [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:22 am ]
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Maxwell Smart: Quote: He didnâ€™t bite on the old Prius idea 99, perhaps he will get some wind in his sails with this one: If one inspects a modern car he will discover that the wheel wells have been reduced to a cavity not much larger than the tire its self, and the large open areas under the fenders sealed off from moving air, or in rear behind tire opening filled with aerodynamic mufflers presumably smoothing laminar flow back under there. My 300 has some sort of rubbery belly pan under the engine that the oil change guys try to charge extra to remove to access the oil filter, but where it is held on, I think, by four twist tabs they let it pass. Also on new cars there are no gaps from bottom of bumper fascia to hood leaving only an air passage to radiator. When hood is open there can be seen plastic horizontal sheets blocking any air from passing up and over radiator into engine compartment. I should think that adapting some sort of filler between back side of bumper and body would help, as these were one of the first airo cues applied to the cars of the seventies just before plastic clad bumpers such as K Cars sported. Study of late seventies & early eighties cars may yield clues that can be adapted easily to your Dart as these cars were products early wind tunnel testing, and still closely resemble late sixtyâ€™s build style. Sam, take a field trip to a Ford dealer to examine an â€˜05 â€“ â€˜09 Mustang (â€˜10-â€˜12 Stangs are much smoother up front), and a sortie over to the Dodge boys to look over a Challenger both of which have concave front grills to see how the engine compartment & wheel wells are sealed. Bill.. No... Max Shoe Phone: 300 Belly Pan: Belly Pan & air dam in front of tire: Just 44,000 miles, and four Maine winters to rust suspension componentsâ€¦ Muffler aft of rear tire filling space to bumper: Plastic wheel well with vents & after market Mopar molded mud flap blocking air flow to where muffler is located: Cladding preventing air flow from front of radiator passing into engine compartment bypassing radiator:

Author:	Sam Powell [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:56 am ]
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All super duper ideas. Emphasis on the duper part. I am going to my brother's on Sat to put brakes on his old CHerokee. I will look at his 05 Mustang. I will start looking at wheel wells also. I added inner fender wells to this Dart years ago. I suppose they could be improved. Connecting the future splash pan to them would smooth things out. Sam

Author:	slantvaliant [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:52 am ]
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Quote: Would a big fan pointed at the area in question be the way to help in this process? Sam Driving at the target speed is best. Airflow changes with speed.

Author:	slantzilla [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:40 pm ]
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Quote: Just 44,000 miles, and four Maine winters to rust suspension componentsâ€¦ Just wait until you have to start replacing all that crap. Other than the ugliness of those cars, that God-awful Mercedes front end is the worst part. Cars drive great, but eat front end parts like candy. Just a heads-up, when you do front brakes make sure to put all the anti-sqeal pieces in. If you don't you'll have all kinds of noises from the front.

Author:	exoJjL [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:34 am ]
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Quote: I should think that adapting some sort of filler between back side of bumper and body would help, I think fender skirts would partially eliminate the need for this. As it would limit the air flow along the side of the car, that potentially at certain speeds flow behind the tires to the back side of the bumper. The filler like you suggest would help flow the air under the car.

Author:	Sam Powell [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:42 am ]
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Quote: Quote: I should think that adapting some sort of filler between back side of bumper and body would help, I think fender skirts would partially eliminate the need for this. As it would limit the air flow along the side of the car, that potentially at certain speeds flow behind the tires to the back side of the bumper. The filler like you suggest would help flow the air under the car. I would probably be more likely to put skirts on the side of a new car I was trying to hypermile. My first efforts with the Dart are going to focus on the areas that can be improved without changing the look of the car too much, such as the air dam already installed. It is interesting to note that the only new car with skirts that comes to mind was the not-too-popular Honda Insight. It got 70 mpg I think, but did not sell well. You seldom see them around here. The skirt idea obviously works, but style still trumps economy most of the time, to some extent. Here is a thought: If NASCAR allowed, or included fender skirts, you might see them on road cars more. Of course since tire change times are a big deal to race teams, that is not likely to happen. I think the appearance of NASCAR race cars effects what people think a car should look like. Air dams are OK. Spoilers are OK. Because they are on NASCAR cars. BAck when NASCAR was brand new, the fastest cars did have skirts on the rear fenders. That would be the Hudson Hornet and the Olds 88. Most cars you bought on the showroom had fender skirts as a dealer option, and, many people chose that option. My 55 Pontiac had them, and I thought they were cool. They popped on and off with a lever on the back side. I did not care a fig about gas mileage then, but thought the fender skirts were "cool". Sam

Author:	exoJjL [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:30 am ]
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Well I suppose fender skirt styling worked here: http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/ ... 2202_2.jpg Maybe not to well for a 6000lb + car that seats 6 passengers. A few more: http://autopixx.de/bilder/dOIbE5mT/1959 ... custom.jpg http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/cad195 ... 57cdv1.png http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... iCIyxtUcnA And this must be the exception: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... d0QmgShNMH

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Author:	Sam Powell [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:32 pm ]
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Yep! Those 50's GM cars are the very ones I was speaking of. My 55 Pontiac was a first cousin of the 57 Caddy pictured. More food for thought. Sam