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| Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64634 |
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| Author: | oldwood [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Thats what I tell my G'friend about my Flathead: Baby it just needs a jump. lol |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
I am well familiar with Mark Goodman and Rusty Heisten's 62 "Team Green" Lancer. Seen it run many times and always in awe of their work and the car's performance. Of course, any Slant 6 is super different these days, and you can easily make a bunch more power than a flathead with less work. I have 3 NA Slant engines (two running in cars, one waiting for body repair on 3rd car) that make north of 240 HP and I drive them everywhere. My turbo EFI Dart makes 350-400 HP and gets 24 MPG on 75 MPH cruising. I don't bother screwing together a Slant that makes less than 180 actual crank HP (always drag tested) these days, and that is relatively mild in my book. Just for reference... Lou |
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| Author: | Jase [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
I can not add a whole lot here, as I have spent more time behind a flathead than I have a slant 6. My PERCEPTION is that a slant 6 will tolerate RPM with more ease. My 230 flathead is happy and bomb proof between idle and maybe 2700RPM. Yes it can be made to turn more RPM's but a slant 6 will live and thrive where the flathead tends to run out of breath. The 265 has a 4.766 inch stroke and is rated as 228 Lb.Ft @1600 (according to my Motor's manual) If you are want to keep up with traffic, and drive the truck at the fast pace of today, then a slant may be happier singing along at 3500 RPM If you are wanting to cruse and loaf, and enjoy the truck at the speeds it was built for, then a flathead will serve very well. With an overdrive, and the 265, with some modifications, it may be very nice as long as you are not trying to spin the motor real hard. |
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| Author: | Slant 6 #6 [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Quote: I am well familiar with Mark Goodman and Rusty Heisten's 62 "Team Green" Lancer. Seen it run many times and always in awe of their work and the car's performance. thanx Lou
Of course, any Slant 6 is super different these days, and you can easily make a bunch more power than a flathead with less work. I have 3 NA Slant engines (two running in cars, one waiting for body repair on 3rd car) that make north of 240 HP and I drive them everywhere. My turbo EFI Dart makes 350-400 HP and gets 24 MPG on 75 MPH cruising. I don't bother screwing together a Slant that makes less than 180 actual crank HP (always drag tested) these days, and that is relatively mild in my book. Just for reference... Lou |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Quote: The 265 has a 4.766 inch stroke and is rated as 228 Lb.Ft @1600 (according to my Motor's manual)
Yes, the stroke of the 265 is like a Cummins 6BT (4.72-inch) and the RPM it favors is similar to that widely admired diesel. George Asche says that if you pay attention to the oiling system the flathead can do sustained higher RPMs, but I don't think they make much power above 3,200 rpm. They were also used in tractors and combine harvesters. The cylinder walls tend to be thick so you could bore the 265 to 283 inches and get more torque that way. The Hudson 308 has a 4.50 inch stroke and it won some races.These are mid 1930s technology that was an improvement over the '20s. By that time the metallurgy had advanced so that a high speed shorter four main bearing six was practical, which eliminated the need for the then very heavy seven main bearing crankshaft, and with the 23-inch flathead, it was compact enough to fit in a space not much larger than the four. The costly long bendy crankshaft is a reason Ford didn't have an inline six until 1942, why he risked building his v8. Chrysler was trying to give Plymouth buyers a six for a similar cost as a four, but he would have preferred to keep building fours for Plymouth, but in 1929 Chevy began the horsepower wars with its low cost straight six. The 23 inch six was built into the 1970s for industrial uses. The seven bearing six eventually reached 413 cubic inches and was replaced by the 354 hemi for use in heavy duty trucks . |
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| Author: | Slant 6 #6 [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Quote: Quote: The 265 has a 4.766 inch stroke and is rated as 228 Lb.Ft @1600 (according to my Motor's manual)
Yes, the stroke of the 265 is like a Cummins 6BT (4.72-inch) and the RPM it favors is similar to that widely admired diesel. George Asche says that if you pay attention to the oiling system the flathead can do sustained higher RPMs, but I don't think they make much power above 3,200 rpm. They were also used in tractors and combine harvesters. The cylinder walls tend to be thick so you could bore the 265 to 283 inches and get more torque that way. The Hudson 308 has a 4.50 inch stroke and it won some races.These are mid 1930s technology that was an improvement over the '20s. By that time the metallurgy had advanced so that a high speed shorter four main bearing six was practical, which eliminated the need for the then very heavy seven main bearing crankshaft, and with the 23-inch flathead, it was compact enough to fit in a space not much larger than the four. The costly long bendy crankshaft is a reason Ford didn't have an inline six until 1942, why he risked building his v8. Chrysler was trying to give Plymouth buyers a six for a similar cost as a four, but he would have preferred to keep building fours for Plymouth, but in 1929 Chevy began the horsepower wars with its low cost straight six. The 23 inch six was built into the 1970s for industrial uses. The seven bearing six eventually reached 413 cubic inches and was replaced by the 354 hemi for use in heavy duty trucks . But make no mistake they can be built to make some power well above 3200 RPM, tractor pulling is one that blasts way past 3200. Im with you though on where do we do most of our driving, in the 2000 to 3000 RPM band. Case in point my burnt out little 228 peak torque is at 1600 rpm, but I can tell you this, it would not like to be at 1600 RPM gping down the road at 65 mph. It would be lugging and too far below its powerband. Ive hit 4000 RPM with this engine on a few occasions, but spurts to over 3000 seem commonplace. But my engine is old and its stock cam with .375 lit and 240 duration is not designed to spin at 5000 RPM. Great engines and I love both Slant 6s and Flathead 6s. They are both marvels compared to Furd flathead V8s and Chevy stovebolt 6s. |
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| Author: | Slant 6 #6 [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Brochure for truck engines |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Quote: Quote: Quote: They are both marvels compared to Furd flathead V8s and Chevy stovebolt 6s. |
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| Author: | Slant 6 #6 [ Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Quote: Quote: Quote: Sold 1 of my slant 6s to a young man in need, its going into a 66 Dodge Polara 2 door, he fixed this car up as a teenager, blew the engine. He sold the car, fast forward 15 years his grandfather found car and bought it back for him. It still had blown engine, so now he can put in another and get her back on road. Yes getting 150 to 175 hp is not a problem on a 265. Going over 200 hp will cost you...lol Another friend shared this, buddy bavk in 1960s had 51 Plymouth, they installed truck 265 to replace burnt out 218 cdn long block. He said it had so much torque with 3.90 gears the front was of car was raising up in take off...lol |
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| Author: | DadTruck [ Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Question, Did those Chrysler flat head six’s have cast iron pistons? And if so, is that what is still used on modern rebuilds? Asking as I think that the IH inline six cylinder motors ( Red Diamond, Silver Diamond) had cast iron pistons,,. But I am going on 50 year old memories,,,. |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Quote: Question, The pistons are aluminum but have four rings. The truck pistons have steel reinforcements to prevent the ring lands from cracking - a problem with L-heads. Its common to use modern pistons in a rebuild. I think flatheads do better with the motor oils we have today. Until after the Korean war the gasoline quality was so poor that even the new V8s didn't have compression ratio above 7:1 - until the mid 1950s. High quality gasoline had been allocated by the military. Flatheads were the right motor for the times, a more sophisticated motor didn't have many advantages. And for cars that did have more power, the roads were often a limitation. Local garages could do valve jobs and overhaul L-heads to keep older cars on the road. If you had a '39 Plymouth you could swap a '59 motor in it and go. Even in the last year of flathead production for Plymouth, two thirds of Plymouths buyers chose the flathead, like Valiant buyers would do with the slant six. In 1950 the average house size in the U.S. was about 850 square feet, it was a frugal time before easy 72-month car financing.
Did those Chrysler flat head six’s have cast iron pistons? And if so, is that what is still used on modern rebuilds? Asking as I think that the IH inline six cylinder motors ( Red Diamond, Silver Diamond) had cast iron pistons,,. But I am going on 50 year old memories,,,. |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Wed May 13, 2020 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slant 6 versus Flathead 6s |
Had a flat head block been cast as aluminum it would have helped the exhaust valve cooling and reduced hot spots in the combustion chambers. A Ford flat head v8 has been in development for a decade by Mark Kirby, the projected price is $12,000 for the all-alloy block and heads. It is claimed to produce 300 hp and 375 foot pounds torque. That's spendy but there appears to be buyers for them. Kirby is the man who learned of improved French military Ford L-head v8s and imported them to the U.S., sold them at high prices. The alloy version looks like a Ford motor but the block is much stronger. It uses modern lifters and larger water pump and a bell housing that accepts several late model transmissions. Its reportedly been undergoing testing for several years. |
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