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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:57 pm 
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Theres no way I'll be making it to Valdosta with my busy A/C season bearing down on me and without trailering this brand new setup I really don't think it would be smart. A few trips around town would be a good starting point.

Sandy, the clutch issues where only a dyno issue. I am running a 904.
We ran the same type of MSD 6AL on the dyno as I have installed in the car.
As for bragging rights, that was not my goal for dyno testing this motor although its nice to talk about big numbers. The reason for testing was to see if I got what I PAID for. I believe I bought a very durable motor that is in need of some serious tuning. I also thought that dynoing it would take care of alot of the tuning. It seems that I was wrong. I guess you get what you pay for even in the testing deptment. ($400 for the day)
"Drive it. It runs. Be happy" as someone said. PLEASE, good money was spent. I'll be happy when its right.
That leads me to what is right? I would think that at least 1 HP per cube is the bear minimum I should settle for. Does this seem out of line?
Let go over what I was looking for before I started this build. This was also discussed with the builder.
First above all, I wanted a realiable durable build. Second, Be able to drive it on the street with only mild driveable issues. Third I was shooting for the mid 14's in the 1/4.
We discussed the Holley 600 but picked the Holley 470cfm because it would be a little better for the street and would likely only give up a little on the top end. To me a little was explained as 10-15HP
The 470 was bolted on and tested as is. 57 primaries 57 secodaries jets. Later we changed the rear jets up to 58's and changed the vacuum secondary spring to a lighter one ("oops wrong way") and then to a heavier one.
Cam timing.
Lets say the cam timing (degreeing) is wrong by 4-5 degrees, can this really kill the power that much? Can I varify the cam timing in the car without removing the timing cover? I did varify the damper timing mark is correct.
Ignition timing.
What typicly is the max total timing that Slants like? As I remember it was around 30 degrees. Is 34 degrees really that much more to cause extreme concern? I also question the timing lights accuarcy. Did you see the old thing in the video. :roll:
performance /6 typically like to be under 30 BTDC total timing.
I would be happy with AT LEAST, 1 hp per cube having spent that money. At least being "worst case scenario".
Accel pump shoot for carb? cam used? jetting seems right at first sight but we need to evaluate booster signal. Could be right or could be awful wrong. power valve? valve lash?

maybe, MAYBE your clutch issues on the dyno caused an untrue reading. I'd say so in light of what you have done with the beast. I'll ask one more time: cranking pressure? and last but not least 5 degrees off can kill 25 hp...

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:04 pm 
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You can check the cam timing without removing the front cover. You can make a holder for the degree wheel that will put it against the damper and pull the valve cover. 4-5 degrees will not make a huge difference, but it will make some if it is off that much.

Are you sure it was on 93 and not leftover race gas? Race gas will kill a lower compression motor.

I don't think you are going to make 1 big change that gets you the 40 horse you are after, but making little changes one at a time will get you there. I have only ever had one motor run as fast as I thought it should right out of the box (built by Mike Jeffrey), but the rest of them got there after I had them in the car and started tuning.

Now is the time you need patience my friend. :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:03 pm 
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I don't have a compression tester yet. Do you recomend any particular one? What is the method you would like? Hot, all plugs removed, any oil in the cylinder?
I bought the 93 octane from the station that I'd be using all the time. I got it that morning.

It sound like theres not much more to do until I finish getting it in the car.
Most of its hooked up. I focused on the stuff that I needed to fire the motor just because I wanted to hear it run. :twisted: Touched the key yesterday and it roared to life. A couple quick snaps of the throttle with open pipes brought the neighbor out for a looksee. :shock: Ran it for about 30 seconds. Got to finish the cooling system.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:37 pm 
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id like to see cranking pressupe hot no plugs and see what happens. Also after the first "dry" readout, a shoot of WD 4o inside each cyl and take all the measurements again.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:25 pm 
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I haven't bought a compression tester yet, but I do have the engine in the car. Its ready for the Exhaust shop.
http://www.renaissanceracing.com/Albums ... ant6c.html

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:36 am 
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Just reread one of the posts that said I should test the compression hot. Ops these are cold pressures. I am tring to not run it to much without the exhaust on it.
The cold pressures are as follows from 1-6:
220, 220, 225, 230, 230 ,230psi.

I didn't do the wet testing because it seems that even dry there pretty high.
Your thoughts please or are these reading meaningless do to the fact that these are cold readings?

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:08 am 
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Those are incredibly high, wet or dry, hot or cold.

I personally like a dry, cold test unless I am looking for a specific problem.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:23 am 
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I am hoping that we didn't build a Race fuel only motor here. Based on these numbers, if you had to guess, what CR do you think I have in realality? I don't see how we could be much over 10.5:1. I whitnessed most of the measurements myself. The head CCed at 64.5. The pistons I didn't measure myself but I know they were still "in the hole" using a straight edge. He said there 7 in the hole. We also have valve reliefs in the pistons. I can't remember but I think the add 6 or 12 CC to each chamber.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:35 am 
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If the pistons are only .007" down you can quite possibly have an 11-1 motor.

Compression that high may be the result of a camshaft way early.

Highest reading I have ever gotten on any of my motors is 180. :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:42 am 
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Calculate Engine Displacement and Compression Ratio

Bore Diameter (inches): 3.591
Stroke Length (inches): 4.250
Number Of Cylinders: 6
Combustion Chamber CC: 64.5
Piston Dome(-)/Dish(+) CC: +6
Deck Height (+/-inches): .007
Head Gasket Thickness (inches): .038
Head Gasket Cylinder Dia (inches): 3.66
Displacement: 258.2628 Cid
Displacement: 4232.1693 cc
Compression: 10.0184 :1

These are the results of an online calculator.
The next step is to probably check the CAM timing.

And just for complete info the cam card.
http://www.renaissanceracing.com/images/CamCard1A.JPG
http://www.renaissanceracing.com/images/CamCard2A.JPG

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:37 pm 
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If the pistons are only .007" down you can quite possibly have an 11-1 motor.

Compression that high may be the result of a camshaft way early.

Highest reading I have ever gotten on any of my motors is 180. :shock:
ditto

220 psi average is :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 3:57 pm 
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The only time I have seen craNKING PRESSURES LIKE THAt was in my 11:1 300" Ford 6 with a Crane "zip" cam. It was 195/200 at cranking speed cold.
It didnt like to start and ate starters like crazy....


Wait till it gets warm......

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:27 pm 
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I ve got one of the late model starters on there and it doesn't seem like it struggling to much to turn it over. I do think the stock starter may not like this engine much.
I just bought this tester from Sears. Maybe I should take it back and try a different one.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:45 pm 
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if I read that cranking pressure and I see your biuld sheet I'd say dyno guy was hi on something like nitromehtane. The only thing that makes ME have second thoughts is the fact that your best power was @ 34 degrees of total timing... unless that's like zip zero load on the engine I think that's too much for a "street-racing" engine.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:57 pm 
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I have checked the cam timing. The intake is opening at 19.5 degrees at 50. The cam card says its suppost to be 14 degrees, a difference of 5.5 degrees. It sound like I should move it. Am I advanced or retarded. Which is better or is straight up best? This was a custom grind. I am thinking straight up.

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