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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:04 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 96
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Quote:
I have a '76 feather duster and it has the disc brakes w/a833OD ...
Cool project you have there!
Sweet!
I would love to have a Duster to match my Dart Lite, one of each......or more?

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1976 Dart Lite /6 3 Speed


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 Post subject: Actually...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
Posts: 9714
Location: Salem, OR
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Quote:
Sure, but 1975 (not 1976) was when the A833OD was first offered on the A-bodies. And I don't think the casting-porosity problems with the aluminum 833OD housings had yet reared its head by '76. I've seen '75s with this trans factory-installed (a very good old-car wrecking yard in Denver had a '75 four-door with 225 and 833OD from the factory). So...why would early production (per se) be an explanation for '76 DLs with 3-speed sticks?
(kind of a semi-rhetorical question; Chrysler did a lot of strange things during that timeframe)

But in 1975... the tranny cases were cast iron (I have one I took from a 4 door 1975 Dart... and I think it's about as heavy as an A-727 big block tranny with it's torque convertor...)It would seem logical that they might have had some casting problems with aluminum body A-833's I already do know there are two separate sets of gear pitches that can be found in the boxes too (the 1975 manufacture A-833 seems to have a 'coarse' style of gear along with some truck trannies, the 'late' 1976 version has a finer pitch/more 'tooth count' per gear...), I found this one out the hard way when pulling the boxes from the 12/75 Feather Duster, and the 3/76 Feather I drive now... the '75 countershaft gears would not work with the '76 mainshaft gears... and... the A-833Od from a 1978 Volare I had, also had the same gear pitch as the 1976 box...

So there was something going on during that time, that they must've had a 'hiccup' in the design, to change it a couple more times...

-D.Idiot


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:40 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:50 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: Pertneer Nashville TN
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Where do you get the dates to ID the trannies? Mine is all iron A body. It is out of a 74. Probably not factory. :lol:

_________________
'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto :-( Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick


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 Post subject: Slight update
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:52 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 96
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2nd round has begun.

1. The carb is rebuilt and installed, with the exception of the accelerator pump rod, which needs to be fiddled with. I am running one of a Thermoquad, as the carb did not have one upon purchase. All of the bolts holding the baseplate to main body, and top plate to main body have been tapped out and have new bolts.

2. Tire pressure has been adjusted to 35 PSI on all 4 corners. I wanted to leave it alone for the purity of the test, but could not in good conscience leave them as bought. Even thought they looked fine, they ranged from 15-18 PSI :shock: Tires max pressure is 44, so I might run them up to 44 down the road to see the effects. The manual steering is much easer now, I can almost turn it one handed.

Conclusion, I will fill up Thursday evening, and compute mileage. I now have a book, to keep MPG and notes. Update soon.

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1976 Dart Lite /6 3 Speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:52 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 192
Location: Akron OH
Car Model:
My tires say max 45 psi. I run them at 55 with no ill effects. Once you get some baseline numbers, I see no harm in overinflating them.

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:33 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24656
Location: North America
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Quote:
My tires say max 45 psi. I run them at 55 with no ill effects.
...except for the greatly increased risk of a blowout and greatly reduced traction.

Overinflating tires is not smart, full stop.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:26 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:04 am
Posts: 9
Location: Everett
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Quote:
Quote:
My tires say max 45 psi. I run them at 55 with no ill effects.
...except for the greatly increased risk of a blowout and greatly reduced traction.

Overinflating tires is not smart, full stop.
This has been pretty much beaten to death over at www.gassavers.org.
Here's one of the better threads: http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=7712

Running at maximum sidewall pressure is always recommended, and many overinflate with no ill effects.

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1963 Dodge D100, SL6 and 3-on-the-tree.
1961 Dodge D200 Crew Cab, ex-USGOV, SL6 and NP435.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24656
Location: North America
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Quote:
many overinflate with no ill effects.
Wrong...unless you're talking about the kind of "no ill effects" that lets people smoke cigarettes with "no ill effects" for years (until they get emphysema or cancer and die), that lets people drive drunk and/or without seatbelts with "no ill effects" for years (until they crash and kill/die), that lets people hack their household wiring with "no ill effects" (until the house burns down), and so on.

The human mind is very poorly equipped to consider risk and probability; those who have extensive training in it are justifiably reluctant to casually give out advice on matters like the (un)safety of overinflated tires, because they know casual advice based on selective perception is usually unsound. That's the key difference between risk-and-probability experts and non-experts; the non-experts think "Gee, I've been doing it for xxx years with no ill effect" constitutes sound basis for advice.

If it were a matter of putting yourself (and only yourself) in danger, then my libertarian streak would kick in and I would say "knock yourself out" (or spin yourself off the road). But when you're on the road, your actions and decisions affect the safety of everyone else on and near the road. Overinflated tires are unsafe, full stop. The reasons why are basic and easy to understand. Advocating overinflated tires is irresponsible. Those are facts, no matter how much anecdotal babble and misinterpretation of unscientific "tests" you can find on the internet.

And even if that weren't the case and it were perfectly safe to overinflate your tires, it would generally be false economy to do so, since overinflated tires wear faster than properly-inflated ones. Remember the old oil filter commercial "Pay me a little now or pay me a lot later"? This is a case like that: You might spend a little less gas money now, but you'll spend a lot more tire money later. Further evidence of the human mind's lack of capacity for unbiased computation is the large costs people will readily pay to achieve small savings.

Inflate your tires to max pressure on the sidewall? Surely. Inflate them over that? No, don't, it's a dumb idea.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:59 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 192
Location: Akron OH
Car Model:
Dan,
With all due respect, I disagree. I calculate a .3-.5 mpg improvement running all six of my tires 10 lbs over. I conceed that it's actually IMPOSSIBLE to prove this without lab conditions, but thru my own testing there is at least a small improvement. At the expense of a harder ride.

It's a given that running massively underpressure, or massively overpressure is a bad idea. It's a given that traction will be marginally compromised, and it's a given if the tires wear unevenly they will cost money to replace.

I guess what we are really talking about is making certain that you maintain AT LEAST the recommended pressure. Modern tires don't look flat when they are flat.

Kip-on-Truckin'

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:45 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Hamilton the STEEL CITY, ON
Car Model:
Quote:
I disagree. I calculate a .3-.5 mpg improvement running all six of my tires 10 lbs over
that is NOT what is being debated here. the issue at hand is whether it is safe, and the answer is NO.

Even inflating your tires to their maximum recommended pressure if it exceeds the pressure specified in the CAR's owner's manual or door sticker is a safety hazard because doing so will nullify the design of your entire suspension. Inflating the tire beyond the car's spec completely changes its reaction characteristics to the weight and spring rate of the car. overinflating it will result in a smaller contact patch and excessive bounce, which means less contact with the road.

on a 40 year old car with lapbelts and rigid steering column THIS means that if you hit anything or god help you go into the ditch and roll over, you are DOGFOOD.

if the tire says 55 PSI MAX and the car says 29, you inflate it to 29 if you want to live.

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I've been calling it as i see it for my entire life and that's not about to change. Take it or leave it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24656
Location: North America
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Kip & Farm:

If I'm wrong, your fuel economy is very slightly less than it might otherwise be.

If you're wrong, metal gets bent and people get pulped.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24656
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
Even inflating your tires to their maximum recommended pressure if it exceeds the pressure specified in the CAR's owner's manual or door sticker is a safety hazard because doing so will nullify the design of your entire suspension. Inflating the tire beyond the car's spec completely changes its reaction characteristics to the weight and spring rate of the car. overinflating it will result in a smaller contact patch and excessive bounce, which means less contact with the road. on a 40 year old car with lapbelts and rigid steering column THIS means that if you hit anything or god help you go into the ditch and roll over, you are DOGFOOD. if the tire says 55 PSI MAX and the car says 29, you inflate it to 29 if you want to live.
I generally agree, with the notable exception that pressure specs written for non-radial tires aren't applicable to radials installed on the same car. Fortunately, none of the cars we talk about in this forum have exotic suspension setups that require really bizarre tire pressures that are very different for front vs. rear, and so the standard practise of 35 psi or so with current-production radials is a safe one. And no, you're not going to fly and die if the spec says 29 and you choose to run 33 instead. But 37? 40? 45? No.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:45 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Hamilton the STEEL CITY, ON
Car Model:
yeah, im just worried that someone will take this wrong idea and run with it---installing an industrial tire and jacking it up thinking as long as you dont exceed the max psi on the tire, youre okay.

there are industrial tires out there that will fit 14 and 15" wheels with a 90 PSI rating that may not blow-out but are SO wrong on a car. you wont be singing in the rain, thats for sure...

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I've been calling it as i see it for my entire life and that's not about to change. Take it or leave it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:39 am 
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SL6 Racer & Moderator
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8899
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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A real good example of tire pressure ratings is given for my 86 Toyota 1 ton pick up. The tires are 185 R 14 LT, and have a max pressure rating of 65lbs. The owners manual says fully loaded tire pressure 65 lbs, but to lower the pressure to 45 lbs when unloaded.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:30 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 96
Car Model:
UPDATE

I could not wait until this afternoon. I topped off at same station, same pump, with same routine. 54 miles on 2.97 gallons = 18.18 MPG.

Previous was 13.5 mpg.

Adjustments made between 13.5 and 18.18 was tire pressure, tires were under-inflated and the carb was rebuilt. Basic parts store rebuild kit, on a 1945 Holley.

Stock, this car had 6.95 x 14 tires, which converters to 25.3 OD if I understand correctly. Currently, tires are 235/60/15, which convert to 26.1 OD. 26.1 / 25.3 = 1.03 or 3% taller tires.

This changes the baseline to 13.9 MPG, and the current to 18.72 MPG.


Next up: Identify gear set, and fluid change in both differential and transmission. Who knows how much better it will shift and drive with new fluid.

_________________
1976 Dart Lite /6 3 Speed


Last edited by Backtobasics on Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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