Hey All,
Thursday Evening Update:

The NEW Condenser has just arrived. It is NOT exactly like the one that it is replacing.

The one that it is replacing has a little metal canister and a wire with a metal flag on the end. The NEW one has a little metal canister and a "strap" with a forked end on it to fit in between the Bolts on the Points Set.

This is actually a much better design. It will be easier to install. It will install more securely.

Will be out tomorrow morning to get it installed, and hopefully get Lorrie up and running again.

Will keep you all updated.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Yes that usually happens as i think the strap is more "adjustable" for positioning the condensor, but some times that doesnt work. Some of the older ones the mounting tab actually just clips to the condensor, and can be put on the new one. Well time will tell, let us know... Ok we are all patiently waiting JC, YOUR move...

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Dusty,
Friday Mid-Morning Update:

Went and did the errands this morning. Got home about 9:30 a.m.

Decided to go ahead and install the Points Set and NEW Condenser.
Installation went flawlessly.

Set the Points Gap at .023"

Hooked up the Spark Plug and Coil Wires.

Checked them three times.

They are correctly installed.

Hooked up the Ground Cable to the Battery.
Turned on the Run Switch.

Activated the Start Switch, and Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six IMMEDIATELY sprang to life!

Went to a steady idle.

Let her warm up a bit and then gave it a bit of throttle and she wouldn't rev up.

Pumped the Throttle a couple of times and the Engine died, and now it won't start again.

Gave it a shot of Staring Fluid and didn't even get a cough. There is NO SPARK.

The Condenser WAS the problem. And may STILL be the problem

Anyway, Lorrie's Engine is STILL not running.

It may be that something is blowing Condensers.

By now it is just to hot out to mess with her any more today.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Probably flooded her.. I doubt it... maybe but not likely.. I do understand that, we are in the oven also...

I would suspect a broken/grounded wire as RC suggested @ this point... I doubt of you have killed the condensor, and not for sure now if the old one was faulty...i would check the wire to the points for continuity... and as you are checking move it around if poss. or just build up another one. Also you have never said if you checked for voltage @ the points when she quits... Have you checked this?

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Dusty,
Opening the throttle produces a "gasping/sucking" sound.
Went out later and the Engine started right up but would still not rev up. So the Condenser is still good.
Agreed.
We're supposed to have a cooling trend in the next week or so.
Have checked the Wire from the "-" Terminal of the Ignition Coil to the Distributor and it is fine.
Used the Multi-Meter on it and it showed 6.X K-Ohms when it should show Infinity. The NEW Condenser showed Infinite resistance, so the OLD Condenser WAS faulty.
Will check it again, but it has checked out fine a number of times.
This is the removing of the Distributor Cap and cranking the Engine to see the spark in the Points Gap? No. Have not done that. Will do that this morning.

Am thinking that the problem is NOT Electrical now. NOW it is a Fuel Issue. Maybe a clogged Filter, or maybe all the OLD Gasoline has finally had some effect on the Carburetor.

Anyway, am out of money till next Tuesday.

Will be messing with Lorrie this morning while it's cool enough to be outside.

Want to thank you for the response and assistance.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Well, if there is no spark...there is an electric issue in there somewhere.
Not that that rules out that there is a fuel issue too

Does the accelerator pump give a good shot of fuel when you operate the throttle?

Umm, maybe try to add a small ground wire from the distributor housing to ground?

I dunno... just throwing out (cheap) stuff here...

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I have no idea what I am talking about.

Hey Mr. RC,
The spark seems to be fine.

My assessment that there was no spark was made by observing that when a shot of Starting Fluid was put into the Engine and the Engine cranked, that there wasn't ANY indication that the Starting Fluid had been ignited.

Went out later and started the Engine. It went to an idle, wouldn't rev up, and after a short time it died.
It seems that the Engine isn't getting any fuel when the Throttle Plate opens. Am going to install a NEW Fuel Filter.
Not known.
Will check to see if the Distributor has continuity to a known Ground.
Your response is much appreciated.

Have just gotten through cleaning up all the Tools, Materials, Equipment, Manuals, and stuff out of Lorrie.

Suspect that what is wrong with her is something simple, but don't know what.

She was running just fine when the Condenser failed last Tuesday morning.

The only thing that has been done to her is to install a NEW Condenser which went in flawlessly. After the NEW Condenser installation, she started right up.

Was elated!

BUT then, the Engine would run properly.

NOTHING else changed between the time that the OLD Condenser Failed, and the NEW Condenser was installed.

Am finding that what is bothering me more than anything is that any TRUST that was had in Lorrie being reliable and dependable is being severely eroded due to this pattern of cascading problems.

Everything WAS fine, and we're on our way to getting her Inspected, and then something goes wrong. In the case of last Monday, it was blowing a Headlight when it was turned on for inspection.

So THAT got fixed on Tuesday, and we were once again ready for inspection. We were backing out of the driveway to go to the Inspection Station, and the Condenser failed.

THAT got fixed on Friday morning, and then something else goes wrong, in this instance the Engine wouldn't run above an idle.

And the things that are going wrong are not discernibly connected with the "fix" that preceded the next malfunction. I mean, installing a NEW Headlamp had nothing to do with the Condenser failing.

And if the problem with the Engine not being able to run above an idle is in the Fuel System, THAT has nothing to do with the NEW Condenser being installed.

There is little that can be afforded to be done till next Tuesday, so am just going to set working on Lorrie aside till then.

There are some other things around here that have been being neglected due to always working on Lorrie. Am going to turn some attention on those thing.

Thanks again for the response.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I can understand your discouragement JC, I really can... You are seemingly having the same kind of luck i have been having for the last couple years or so... Havent said anything about my latest woes here, as the car in question isnt a slant car.. Last Monday evening (18th) I had my 'big' car(1977 Chrysler Newport 4dr sedan) parked where it has been parked for the last 8 months and an errant drunken moron slams into the right rear quarter panel, turning said car 90 degrees in the street then fleeing scene of accident... leaving a trail of fluids and pieces of his car for ME to deal with.... (Including his front license plate ) Well so far no contacts from the police so here i am with a totaled car and no recourse.... But back to your discouragement, Lorrie will again be dependable when she is ready. She is testing your patience and will settle in and act right when you have all but given up on her. Check for a STREAM of fuel 1st looking in the carb, to check for fuel delivery first, but i still think maybe you have 2 small gremlins working simultaneously and 1 being ign related, and MAYBE 1 fuel related... If you have a solid stream of fuel when the accelerator is operated I would rule out a fuel delivery problem as the gremlin. But the first check WHEN it quits is pull coil wire from dist and crank motor to see if you still have spark. You can then report your findings, and if spark then look for fuel related problems... if NO spark then systematically find the cause of why. I know usually starting fluid is a way to check for spark but it isnt a fool proof way either.. Usually any kind of spark and the engine will hit, but i have seen some that wouldnt also...


PS I cant remember now but does Lorrie have a ballast resistor? If so I would strongly suspect that as the failing ignition system... As it heats it opens, once it cools it kind of "works"....

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Dusty,
Am not so much discouraged as nonplussed. Have gotten pretty good at doing the things that are necessary with these old cars. My work is clean, and done properly. There are some things that are not fully understood, but am able to learn and to apply what is learned. But this chain of events with Lorrie is just a bunch of scattered happenings that don't seem to have any relativity. Blown Headlight... Failed Condenser... Engine unable to run properly... It's just that with each "fix" comes a totally unrelated NEW problem.
It's not like we aren't aware of the quirks and oddities of messing with these old vehicles. They DO seem to develop glitches and ticks in their personalities. But have always found that being kind and gentle with them, and doing solid and thorough repairs, and then treating them as the older, somewhat fragile things that they are, that they respond in a manner that doesn't disappoint. And that has worked with Lorrie up until just lately. And now it's as if she is just being contrary.
I seem to recall something like that happening a short while ago. Have you inquired of the police about this? If they have the license number, they should be able to find who owns it.
Have been operating under THAT premise for some time. Things happen when they are supposed to happen. Last Monday and Tuesday we were sooo close to her getting her NEW Inspection Sticker. And NOW, don't have a clue as to how long it is going to take to get her back to where we can go for her NEW Inspection Sticker.
Well, my attitude is that she isn't healthy. But she isn't going to get well by herself. And am not giving up on her just because she is ill. But it DOES seem exceeding strange for her to get oh so close to be finished, and then to start a cascading of problems, one after another, without any rhyme or reason for them.
Alright.
You mean they may be teaming up?
Alright.
Alright.
Alright.
Have decided that since everything else has been replaced, that it might be efficacious to include a NEW Distributor Cap and Rotor. Am going to get those next Tuesday.
Apparently.
Alright.
Yes.
It's a NEW unit, one of three that are here. It checks out just fine. But may go ahead and change it.

There is also another totally unrelated factor involved here, and that is that it is Summer, and just too damned hot to be out patiently working on Lorrie. From the end of last Summer till the beginning of this Summer, there were few days that weren't conducive to spending enjoyable hours piddling with details. But with the heat and humidity the way it is NOW, it is actually dangerous to lethal for me to be outside.

Anyway, there was just a lightning strike north of here. Got to get the computer off line, and get the Tarp over Ms. American.

Thanks for the assistance and suggestions. Will let you know what transpires.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

replace fuel filter,check presure from pump

Hey Mr. H,
Will be getting new Fuel Filters on Tuesday. The Fuel Pump seems to be doing fine. It has less than five hours of operating time on it.

What has to be done (whatever it is) wouldn't be so daunting were it not for the weather conditions. It is just hot, HOT, H-O-T HERE. And no air movement. It's like being in an oven to be outside.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Sunday Morning Update:

Went out this morning to see if Lorrie's Engine would start.

It tried but then gave up trying.

Want to mention a number of things...

1. Right after Lorrie gave up trying to start, the Coil Wire was pulled out of the Distributor and held near a ground. When the Engine was cranked, it sparked intermittently! It wasn't a steady succession of sparks. So most probably the Coil is not operating properly.

2. Took the Distributor Cap off of the Distributor. Checked to see if the Points were sparking when the Engine was cranking. They were.

3. At this point, noticed that the Wire from the "-" Terminal of the Ignition Coil had somehow gotten pulled DOWN into the Distributor. Got it back up into the area where the Condenser is. It was still connected to the Metal End Fitting that is still connected to the Points Set, but the little reinforcing TAB on the Metal End Fitting that holds the Wire was loose. Tightened that up. It seems to be fine.

4. Decided to reset the Gap on the Points. It was at this point that it was noticed that WHEN the "Follower" on the Points Set is sitting ON one of the PEAKS on the Distributor Shaft, and the Gap is set to .023, that when the Distributor Shaft is rotated to where the "Follower" is on a FLAT, that there is a GAP between the "Follower" and the FLAT on the Distributor Shaft. The "Follower" is worn down. Need NEW Points.

Problem with that is: Got NEW Points from NAPA back when the Condenser that just failed was acquired, but they wouldn't install. The Hole in the Points Set that fits over the Pivot in the Distributor is too small and the Points will not fit over the Pivot. So have been using the OLD Points ever since we started to get Lorrie's Engine up and running.

So back to this morning: Got the Points Gap reset. Got the Distributor reassembled. Got the Spark Plug Wires installed. Tried to Start Lorrie's Engine, and it would TRY but give up almost instantaneously.

Again pulled the Coil Wire out of the Distributor, held it near a ground and cranked the Engine. It would spark a few times and then quit.

Would have installed Ms. American's ORIGINAL Ignition Coil, but by this time it had gotten too hot for me to be out working on Lorrie.

Am going to Livingston for Cat Food and Psyllium Husk on Tuesday, and am going to get a NEW Coil, NEW Distributor Cap, NEW Rotor, NEW Points, and a couple of NEW Fuel Filters.

Will be calling NAPA tomorrow to order all the NEW stuff.

Am going to take the OLD Points, the NEW Points (from NAPA) that don't fit, along with the OLD Distributor Cap, and the OLD Rotor with me when I go to NAPA on Tuesday to make sure that what we are getting is the Right Stuff.

Weather here is overcast from an upper level low pressure system that is moving North from the Gulf of Mexico and going just to the West of here. But we are getting overcasts skies. The temperature is in the high 80s, low 90s, but the humidity is just horrible.

Am sure glad that Global Warming is all a hoax. Just imagine how hot it would be if it were REAL!

Hope you all are doing well.

Will keep you all updated.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Well of course, she didnt want to tease you. Just as I had expected. Were they firing everytime or intermittently like the coil? Yep, and probably will be. Yeah they are definitely worn, but still functional. Think someone else has mentioned the same thing about a points set they had purchased. I would take the old set for a comparison before getting all the way back home to discover the same problem.... I have concluded during my years of messing with old cars and points that there are maybe 5 different "styles" of points is all, so you may have to make them do a mis-match application to get the 'right' pivot hole... JC it maybe a good time to think of upgrading to an electronic styled ignition. The HEI conversion is really easy, and comparatively inexpensive to do if you can find an electronic distributor... Sounds like a culmination of parts giving up @ the same time... Yeah we have been in the oven for the last week, all triple digit heat numbers, BUT with much less humidity than what you are having to deal with. The High Pressure system that has been causing the heat is/has supposed to move back west over the cali/az border area, where its SUPPOSED to be hot.... If your kitties are like mine they can TELL when you are getting close to the bottom of the bag, and will REMIND you that they KNOW this fact, and ya better act accordingly..lol Its kind of good to know that you know what parts you need, for pre-order, but I am supposing your area has less of a demand for those parts, as most of the time here the parts are readily avail... ( thats the reason for my earlier comment on the points situation.) That is a very good idea, and maybe the will get the RIGHT points this time, and will just swap them. (that would be MY hope anyways) I think Dan has posted all the part no.s her on site somewhere. But I am not Dan and dont have the threads readily avail like he does.... Well i have my own thoughts on the global warming, but having said that I know what you mean... cept for 2 winters ago... then we were wanting a warm up around here.. Snow 18" deep and 2 weeks of frigid temps blowing snow and more snow.... And hope YOU are doing well JC and do keep us informed.. ps check yer PM's

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Dusty,
Took some time to just commune with Lorrie. She isn't just being a stinker. There is definitely equipment malfunctions. She doesn't feel well. She needs EVERYTHING fixed all at once. That's the reasoning behind a NEW Coil, NEW Points, NEW plugs, NEW Condenser, NEW Distributor Cap, and NEW Rotor.
Yet, when the Ignition Coil was sitting here on the bench, it check out just fine at 1.8 K-Ohms between the "+" and "-" Terminals, and 9.47 K-Ohms between the "+" Terminal and the Coil Wire Tower, and 9.48 K-Ohms between Coil Wire Tower and the "-" Terminal. So have found that just because the Ignition Coil tests within specs, doesn't mean that it will actually work.
They were firing consistently. Every time the gap came open, there was a spark.
But, in looking at the geometry, it appears that if the "follower" is worn down, the Points Gap can still be set to .023", BUT the worn "follower" would affect the Dwell. The Points would open "later" and close "sooner" than if the "follower" wasn't worn.
Mentioned this to Jimmy, the BEST NAPA Counter Guy, and he said to bring them back so that they could check on them.
EXACTLY.
Had the OLD Points Set and the NEW Points Set side by side the other day when the NEW Condenser was being installed, and it is OBVIOUS that the NEW Points Set Pivot Hole is SMALLER than the OLD Points Set Pivot Hole.
Am apprehensive. Am not sure that the skill and expertise necessary to do the conversion is available here. Have gotten pretty good at dealing with Points and Condensers. Am able to do the installation, and adjustment with some amount of efficacy. Might be able to do the same with HEI, but it would take some time to become competent at it just as dealing with the Standard Ignition System has.
And THAT seems to be what the senseless cascading of problems has been about.
The humidity is good for one's skin, but it often is VERY uncomfortable.
Made an attempt one time to explain to the Congress of Cats where the food came from. They didn't seem to be at all interested. They just know that every morning at 6:00 a.m. that they each get a bowl of Meow Mix with a can of Friski's canned cat food mixed half and half with hot water poured over it. And that the rest of the time there is a bowl of Meow Mix next to a bowl of fresh water on which to snack. They all seem to be happy with that arrangement.
Can call NAPA in the morning, and if they don't have what is needed, they can check it on the Computer, and generally can have it there the NEXT morning at 6:00 a.m. Their Main Parts Depot is Houston. Houston almost ALWAYS has EVERYTHING. Used to live in Houston. Have to go there twice a year to see the MDeities. One would have to be CRAZY to live there now.
That's what Jimmy, the main Counter Guy at NAPA indicated would happen.
I remember that. The sum total of the weather HERE now is that while it is getting HOTTER during the peak of the Summers, the Springs and Autumns are shorter, and the Winters are more like Spring and Autumn used to be.

There wasn't a hard freeze here last Winter, and the result of that was that the Spring brought MORE insects, especially Sand Fleas.

Every Spring finds the carpets here getting turned into toxic waste dumps with copious applications of Demize EC, and PreCor getting sprayed on them a week apart.
Seem to be hanging in here. Will keep you all updated.
Did that. You do the same.

Hang in there.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Monday Morning Update:

Already this morning, have removed: Lorrie's Spark Plug Wires; Ignition Coil Wire; Distributor Cap; Rotor; Points; Condenser; and Ignition Coil. Am taking all that stuff with me when we go to Livingston tomorrow.

Am going to be calling NAPA this morning to get all the stuff ordered.

Will let you all know how it goes.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor