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| coolant leak... https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57742 |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | removing inner gasket |
Dan is spot on, yes, you can get that one out. The hard part is putting goop on it, if you want to that is. The pump metal surfaces are pristine, and appear really flat. Below is a pic of the block surface. I cleaned it with solvent, wire brushed it, cleaned it again. This is getting silly. There is some pitting on the area where the gasket doesn't touch, but that's it. Also, I put a straight edge on it, and it is really flat. http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... s.jpg.html http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... d.jpg.html As a last ditch effort, I torqued down really tight, say 40-50 lbs, it slowed, but still seeing bubbles. I'm wondering, do they all do this and eventually seal anyway (like minute particles eventually seal the paper part)? I've never thought about it, but then again I've never actually pressure tested a water pump install (nor have I ever had one leak except for through the weep hole...). This is the same block as the last build and it didn't leak, I just slapped one on there like I always have, had no issues before. I pulled the pump again, the silicone I'm using seemed to be stuck to the metal surfaces really well, this is what I always have used. I had to razor it off (as you would expect). It must be leaking through the paper or something. Perhaps a low viscosity sealant that penetrates the paper would be a better way to go. Dan's double copper spraying, let dry technique is next up or silicone gaskets, whichever I get to first. I am seriously going to get silicone one's made though, I'll update you on that. Anyway, this was the same issue with two different water pumps, so there's that data point. The GMB pump appears to be very high quality, the shaft and bearing and seal appear way more heavy duty than the cheapy one I tried last time and all the metal surfaces look good. I did note the inner paper gasket was very thin compared to the Felpro one I used on the outside. It doesn't take much for a leak, even a micron, say 1/50 the thickness of a human hair, will leak air and fluid. Maybe one of the purposes of my life is to find SL6 issues (they certainly seem to find me at least) and create new user friendly solutions. brian |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: the inner paper gasket was very thin
The thinner gasket should have less of a chance to leak in my opinion. I don't think that is the issue. I always put a thin film of clear silicone on that inner gasket and have never had a leak there. It seems like something else may be going on?  Rick |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | one more try today |
I'm going to try Dan's method of copper spray, let it dry, coat again, let it dry, then install. Dan, how long to dry between coats? I just cleaned out all the old gasket and silicone from between the plate and the pump body, that was a trick... brian |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rick |
...could well be operator error...  Though this is a new issue for me and I've done plenty of water pumps. brian |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This tread has brought back a memory from pre 1974 when I had a 273 V8 Dart. For some reason I had to remove the cast iron neck which upper radiator hose connected to and casting to block. For some reason I had no gasket on hand, and no silicone which may or my not have been on the market at that time. Solution to no gasket was to cut out one from a cereal box, (I recommend Sugar Frosted Flakes as they were once called), then saturated cardboard gasket with motor oil, and installed it. It never leaked. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Frosted Flakes... |
Yes! We usually used the back of a notepad, the one's you get in school, though I'm sure a legal pad is the same stuff and cereal boxes sometimes. We did this often, as we lived in the country, there was no internet back then, and we were a large, rather poor, family. There was always a minibike, lawnmower, chainsaw, or car engine that needed a gasket of some sort. Despite that we seemed to get along just fine. Brian |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | progress! |
Just for kicks, I bolted the pump to the block without any gaskets, clean. It appears the surfaces tolerances are good, there was very little if any noticeable gaps, definitely thinner than the gasket thickness if any gap at all. Then I dug up two Felpro gaskets I had; I used Dan's copper spray method to coat them, then reinstalled. I pressurized the system, no leaks! I sprayed soapy water on there and there are no bubbles. It's held it's pressure for about two hours now. I'll check it again in the morning, but it appears (that sound you hear is me knocking on wood) that did the trick. http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... z.jpg.html It was hard getting that pre-tackyfied gasket in between the plate and the pump body, but it didn't lose any tackiness, nothing came off the gasket even though it stuck a few times and I peeled it off to align it properly. Really fine tipped needle nose pliers came in handy for this task. Thanks Dan. Brian P.S. I'm still looking into silicone gaskets for this purpose; seems like the way to go. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What about rubber gaskets from an old inner tube........... I made one from a motorcycle inner tube for the thermostat when I was doing a lot of flushing when I got the car. It's still there. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Here's hoping that's done it. If you spray gaskets with copper gasket spray well in advance (days...week...) it'll lose all surface tack, but not sealing power. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | thanks again, Dan. |
Yes, I put it at 7 psi last night at 9pm and this morning it is still just below 7 psi, so it held all night. OK, so next time maybe the copper stuff will go on a week prior to the pump going on, good tip. Inner tube would work, but I suspect silicone is more heat resistant. I think we can close this chapter. brian |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Don't take this wrong, but I think you are chasing a problem you will likely never have again. Murphy's Law! 
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thanks Rick |
No, I get it, I just have this itch to see if silicone gaskets are as super easy as I think they will be. If I can help to realize an option for SL6er's why not? brian |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | further data... |
I did a leak test this morning, mine is holding pressure pretty well, but there are some bubbles forming over time if I leave the soapy water on there. Probably fine, definitely way better than it was, very likely wouldn't leak if I were to run it. The previous try would put out a few drops over night sitting, but not leak at all when warm. So I figure this one may well (fully) seal up when I warm it up and be done. Still, I want to try the silicone ones as a test comparison. I've spent this much time, might as well go the full distance and be a guinea pig. Brian |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Are you still testing with air only or have you put coolant back in? Leaking air and leaking water are two different things. |
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| Author: | '67 Dart 270 [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Good question Pierre |
It's only air at this point, Pierre. As I said, I think Dan's (well thought out) method pretty much fixed the issue. I checked just now, it was setting all day and it has leaked out only about 1 psi since last night. If I put the soapy water on there it makes bubbles but very very little. I don't think it would leak fluid at this point. Before it was losing all pressure in just a few hours. BUT, since I have the coolant out and I've done this three times now, I'm thinking I might just wait and test out those silicone gaskets as well. The paper ones only cost me $4 (total), and I can redo if the silicone ones aren't the bees knees. I can be patient at this point. We're going on vacation for a few weeks, so by the time I'd get to putting it back together, I can go ahead and try the silicone gaskets (I'll spray another set of $2 paper ones with copper before I leave town just in case). I don't mind being a test subject for the silicone ones; I'm a scientist and have a keen interest in seeing if they work. Also, if they do work, it'll give the SL6er's another off the shelf choice from Real Gaskets. brian |
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