Slant Six Forum :: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)

He posted yesterday he's going to do a billet block now.

Yeah, these things are getting easier. Best of luck to him. Maybe I'll contact him sometime...

Lou

For what it is worth, my interest in a new head has nothing to do with weight savings and everthing to do with updating the combustion chamber design, port design, valve sizes, and possibly changing to an OHC setup and/or having fuel injector ports in the head. My opinion, based on my limited grasp of foundry and manufacturing processes, is that CNC machining a billet to make a two piece head would be the most economical way to do this. But I freely admit I have very little knowledge of even the basics of machining and metal forging.

Quote:

He posted yesterday he's going to do a billet block now.

So a billet large enough to do the head was about $325? That would make one big enough to do a block about $1000 or more.

While I don't get whole "aluminum" thing other than the "Oh that is cool factor", I wish him well. Maybe it will turn out to be a Siamese block with 3.6" bore and cost $1000!

It sounds like many here think an extrusion is no big deal to jig up and CNC. That maybe true, and above my pay grade.

However, I have worked quite a bit with 6061 T-6 extrusions, and have noticed over the decades, when cutting a relatively thick section (1"?), the innermost alum material will "suck in" slightly away from the cut. If that phenomena happened to me unexpected partly thru the machining process of a huge chunk of alum, I would be very unhappy.

Maybe others have seen this, and can explain and tell how its accounted for and/or if this is normal.

So why waste time with aluminum? Isn't there some sort of "plastic" that is as strong and heat resitent and can be used with a 3D printer?

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Quote: He posted yesterday he's going to do a billet block now. So a billet large enough to do the head was about $325? That would make one big enough to do a block about $1000 or more. While I don't get whole "aluminum" thing other than the "Oh that is cool factor", I wish him well. Maybe it will turn out to be a Siamese block with 3.6" bore and cost $1000!

Author:	Dart270 [ Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Yeah, these things are getting easier. Best of luck to him. Maybe I'll contact him sometime... Lou

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Quote: Yeah, these things are getting easier. Best of luck to him. Maybe I'll contact him sometime... Lou I second.. Greg

Author:	Tim Keith [ Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Quote: For what it is worth, my interest in a new head has nothing to do with weight savings and everthing to do with updating the combustion chamber design, port design, valve sizes, and possibly changing to an OHC setup and/or having fuel injector ports in the head. My opinion, based on my limited grasp of foundry and manufacturing processes, is that CNC machining a billet to make a two piece head would be the most economical way to do this. But I freely admit I have very little knowledge of even the basics of machining and metal forging. I'd be thrilled with a better cast iron head, but as a low budget project iron would be like Elon Musk flying to Mars and back in six months. I think a two piece "bathtub" head could be practical, if just a few were built to prove them. The water passages could be milled and drilled, then sheet metal welded over the water jackets - "a labor of love". After driving a few test mules for a year or two, and should the design solve old complaints, attempt to find a pattern maker to produce a one-piece casting. I figure if the alloy head didn't crack or warp and the valve seats didn't drop out, then how could you not improve upon the OEM head? I think that a price of $2,800 could sell a couple dozen heads, but not as a light weight novelty. The alloy head would have to be super duper. If it took a 90 hp stock block to 110, I don't think there would be much demand for it. Actually, a 20 hp increase on the low compression motor would be fantastic, but it just wouldn't sell enough to pay for the tooling and labor. If an alloy head worked much better with boost or na with a compression increase than the OEM head, then maybe it would sell to racers. Go Robert Maw, go!

Author:	GregCon [ Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
A chunk of aluminum to make a block would be way for than $1000....that's because when you get into sizes that large you pretty much fall out of bed on 'off the shelf' aluminum. You'd most likely have to order it as a custom.

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Author:	jcc [ Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Quote: Quote: He posted yesterday he's going to do a billet block now. So a billet large enough to do the head was about $325? That would make one big enough to do a block about $1000 or more. While I don't get whole "aluminum" thing other than the "Oh that is cool factor", I wish him well. Maybe it will turn out to be a Siamese block with 3.6" bore and cost $1000! I seriously doubt a head sized block of alum could be obtained for anywhere near $325, I'd guess closer to $1K area. I spotted that detail earlier, but since others are using that number, I think it should really be verified, but regardless, the billet is not anyway the main cost here, as I see it. Online Metals depot 7-1-20: Filter By: Stock NumberItem Size & DescriptionWeight / Ft.Select SizeEnter QTYPriceAdd to Cart F468 6 X 8 6061-T6511 Aluminum Flat 57.00 lb/ft 6 Ft. 1 $2493.36 ea. In Stock

Author:	slantzilla [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
I find it interesting that he is now doing a block. He originally was going to use a mint aluminum block he already has.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Is the head completed?

Author:	GregCon [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
yeah...it seems that if a block is afoot before the head is finished, there might well be some loss of direction in play.

Author:	CNC-Dude [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Quote: It sounds like many here think an extrusion is no big deal to jig up and CNC. That maybe true, and above my pay grade. However, I have worked quite a bit with 6061 T-6 extrusions, and have noticed over the decades, when cutting a relatively thick section (1"?), the innermost alum material will "suck in" slightly away from the cut. If that phenomena happened to me unexpected partly thru the machining process of a huge chunk of alum, I would be very unhappy. Maybe others have seen this, and can explain and tell how its accounted for and/or if this is normal. 6061 is probably the most general basic grade of aluminum. It's cheap, and is typically strong enough for middle of the road parts that are not going to be used in high stress applications. It is often mislabeled as an aircraft grade aluminum, but it isn't. As you pointed out, when you machined some billets or castings, they do curl or cup. This is because stresses are released internally as its machined. Higher grades of aluminum that truly are aircraft grades such as 2024 or 7075 have properties in them that help resist the tendencies to deform when machined. They are also much stronger than 6061, but also have properties that need more attention than 6061. 6061 is very corrosion resistant, while 2024 and 7075 often needs to be coated such as anodized to protect it from corrosion, and are also more difficult to weld.

Author:	jcc [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
I believe you are fairly spot on all your points. However those on the sidelines, should understand a real aircraft grade of the two you mentioned, could easily almost double the material cost.

Author:	Tim Keith [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
I frequently visit the scrap yard, always curious as to what others consider to be junk. Its one place that I wish had a web cam. Sometimes I see a chunk of steel big enough to mill the lower block - main bearing web and lower support. To the Robert Maws, I'd like to see somebody build a one-one welded "big bore" block. I guess it wouldn't be a slant six anymore if it only used the OEM crankshaft, but that would be cool.

Author:	kesteb [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
So why waste time with aluminum? Isn't there some sort of "plastic" that is as strong and heat resitent and can be used with a 3D printer?

Author:	GregCon [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
There is such a plastic, but anyone who has any of it is 3D printing compliant, nubile, and properly subservient women.

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Author:	jcc [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Aluminum Head?! (Robert Maw)
Quote: So why waste time with aluminum? Isn't there some sort of "plastic" that is as strong and heat resitent and can be used with a 3D printer? Not on his planet, yet.