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MPG experiment...1976 Dart Lite...Sept 26...Up to 20.19!
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29756		 Page 5 of 6
Author:  Backtobasics [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:46 am ]
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In regards to the over-inflation discussion.....

IMO the tire sidwall trumps the sticker on the door. The tire manufacturers know far better what tire pressure belongs in their tire then the auto manufacturer. These vintage cars are frequently far from a stock vehicle, (radial tires, aged suspension, aftermarket wheels) therefore clinging to a sticker on the door seems wrong.

The sticker on my door was designed for a new stock suspension vehicle, on bias ply roller skate size tires, and stock wheels.
My car has a suspension with lots of miles on it, radial tires that are wider and taller then stock, and aftermarket reproduction ralleye wheels.

I will likely go up to the max on the tire at some point, but I will not exceed it.

PS As I recall, the a huge portion of deal on tires with the Ford Explorer, and Firestone a few years, was that tires were inflated to the number Ford listed, and not what Firestone listed, so the tires were effectively under-inflated, and the resulting heat and friction was what was killing the tires, causing the failures.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:54 pm ]
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Those ATX radials were crap! I had 3 fail on my old '76 Ford van. They were cheap.

I hate Firestone! I had a set of HPR's on my 81 2.2 Charger from the factory. They wore out fast before they could explode :lol:
Author:  kipamore [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:19 pm ]
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I simply GOTTA chime in on the Firestone thing. Living in Akron, this was huge news at the time, which is odd because Goodyear is the only major tire company still here. There was a huge and bloody strike in 1976; one year later nobody was left. Goodyear still makes race tires here, and has HQ and R&D here. But otherwise, no rubber industry in the Rubber City.

But the Firestone thing was a hot topic here. I blame mass media for getting the story entirely WRONG. There was nothing inherently wrong with those tires. They were run-flats, and as such don't look flat when even when they are basically flat. If memory serves, some of those roll overs occured on tires with 3psi in them! And the problem wasn't with the Explorer either. It's a tall vehicle with a high center of gravity. You put that together with aggressive driving soccer moms and flat tires and DUH it's gonna roll over. Same in a Jeep, same in anything.

But Ford blamed Firestone, and Firestone decided that they wanted to keep Ford as a customer bad enough to eat HALF A BILLION BUCKS in tires. They figured the recall would cost less. So a whole bunch of schmucks threw out perfectly good sets of tires and got free new ones. Firestone survived. Ford got a freebie. SUVs still rollover all the time.

Kip on Truckin'
Author:  kipamore [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:25 pm ]
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Dan,
Let's look at the big picture. I like to think that, on the Valiant, over or under inflated tires are still safe compared to everything else on the car that is unsafe. Drum brakes, ball joints, no air bags, no seat belts, rust, worn wiper blades and a dirty windshield make my tires the least of my worries. Now that I think of it, the tires, oil, and filters are the only things on my heap that were made in this century!

Kip on truckin'
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:42 am ]
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Well the Firestone 500 was a junk tire, big recall. Replaced with the "721" it was junk too. Lots of failures. Then there was the ATX. I had 2 throw the tread (properly inflated) and another exploded at 60mph.

My tires weren't bought from 1976 production.

My uncle worked for General tire as an engineer, refused to buy any American built steel radial. He bought Michelins.

What ever happened to Aramid radials?
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:32 pm ]
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The tire manufacturers know far better what tire pressure belongs in their tire then the auto manufacturer.
The tire mfrs have absolutely no idea what car their tire is going to be installed on, or what that car weighs. the car manufacturer, on the other hand, DOES know what size tire they want on the car and how that tire will behave at the pressure they specify.

fortunately the a-bodies continued production after radials became available, and we can use the pressures they specified at that time for radials installed on earlier a-bodies. we can then be reasonably assured that our car will handle in the predictable manner we are used to.

or, we can embarrass ourselves in front of our fellow enthusiasts by admitting we overinflate our tires, and justify doing so by admitting we drive around with worn-out suspension and dirty windshields. there's an argument that will hold up REAL well in court.
Quote:
But Ford blamed Firestone, and Firestone decided that they wanted to keep Ford as a customer bad enough to eat HALF A BILLION BUCKS in tires. They figured the recall would cost less. So a whole bunch of schmucks threw out perfectly good sets of tires and got free new ones. Firestone survived. Ford got a freebie. SUVs still rollover all the time.
Not my fault, i voted for KRUSTY THE CLOWN
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:39 pm ]
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Quote:
Not my fault, i voted for KRUSTY THE CLOWN
What's the correct inflation pressure for a Krustyburger?
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:46 pm ]
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um, i believe that's three belt notches dan, but im not sure.
Author:  digger12 [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:20 pm ]
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My tires say max 45 psi. I run them at 55 with no ill effects.
...except for the greatly increased risk of a blowout and greatly reduced traction.

Overinflating tires is not smart, full stop.
Just to add my 2c. I fully agree with Dan. I have seen tyres worn mostly in the center of the tread from over inflation.

Which means less tyre contact and and much less control when the s**t hits the fan. Imagine driving in the wet with massively over inflated tyres... :(
Author:  VG-265 [ Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:14 am ]
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I see FAR more underinflated tyres than overinflated.
Author:  Backtobasics [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:19 am ]
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Quote:
Quote:
The tire manufacturers know far better what tire pressure belongs in their tire then the auto manufacturer.
or, we can embarrass ourselves in front of our fellow enthusiasts by admitting we overinflate our tires, and justify doing so by admitting we drive around with worn-out suspension and dirty windshields. there's an argument that will hold up REAL well in court.
Is this a dig at me?

I am not embarrassed in any way. I have no issue putting my cards on the table for this MPG experiment. I acknowledge that I am driving a vehicle manufacturered 32 years ago. I acknowledge that drum brakes are older technology....yada yada yada.

I also acknowledge that the braking system had everything in the hydraulic system BUT the hard lines, and distribution block repaced, bearings serviced, and new shoes and hardware installed. I question how many people around me on the road have given their braking system the same maintainence?

I acknowledge that the suspension system is not NEW from one end to the other. I acknowledge that I gave the suspension a thorough inspection, grease and solid "once over", and installed new shocks on all 4 corners.. The front tires do not lean inward, eat tires, etc. Again I wonder how many owners have given their vehicle the same level of maintainence?

I acknowledge that I do not follow the pressure listed on the door of my car. I bought the vehicle with modern radial tires. I believe the vehicle was built around bias ply tires, but I am not sure. I inflate the tires to a medium point between the bias ply rating on the door, and the maximum PSI rating on the sidewall of the tire. I still believe that the tire manufacturer has a far better idea of what pressure should be in the tire then Dodge did in 1976 when spec-ing out pressure for bias ply tires. I acknowledge the weight aspect of your argument, yet I am running a very lightweight car (/6 3 spd manual EVERYTHING) so I do not believe that in my case the weight concern is as relevant an issue as if someone were overloading the rating of the tires.

I am making an educated guess based upon the performance of the car, wear pattern of the the tires, and overall behavior of the car, as to the pressure I deep most appropriate for my application. Tire technology evolves constantly. Left alone, our cars will not. This is why I make my adjustments based on the specifications of the tire, and not a sticker on a 32 year old car.

BTW, the car has a BRAND NEW windshield, and I am fanatical about clean windows....just in case.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:55 pm ]
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The tire manufacturers know far better what tire pressure belongs in their tire then the auto manufacturer.
or, we can embarrass ourselves in front of our fellow enthusiasts by admitting we overinflate our tires, and justify doing so by admitting we drive around with worn-out suspension and dirty windshields. there's an argument that will hold up REAL well in court.
Is this a dig at me?
No it is not. it is a dig at some profoundly bad advice which you seem on the edge of considering.

I stand by my opinion that the car manufacturer put the door sticker on the car for a reason and have nothing further to add to that. as i said, the a-body did come stock with radial tires in the latter half of production, and i advise you to use that pressure as a guideline. Lack of maintenance and ill-advised mixing and matching of custom suspension components is NOT an excuse for running whatever pressure you like. That all goes out the window, along with pieces of your own body, if your tires leave the road. Good Luck~
Author:  dakight [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:18 pm ]
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I agree the inflation pressures recommended by the manufacturer are there for a reason. I don't necessarily agree that it is for best handling and tire life. I think it's at best a compromise among the above and a smooth "boulevard" ride. Compound that with the fact that not only are we putting radials on our cars which weren't designed for them; we're often putting on different sizes, usually larger sizes, than those specified by the manufacturer.

I would under no circumstances run more than the sidewall rated maximum pressure. The tire manufacturers may not know on which car the tires will be installed, but they do know the construction materials and methods they used to build the tires. Exceeding those maximums is a very bad idea and will not likely yield appreciably better fuel economy anyway.
Author:  Backtobasics [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:55 am ]
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Quote:
Quote:
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or, we can embarrass ourselves in front of our fellow enthusiasts by admitting we overinflate our tires, and justify doing so by admitting we drive around with worn-out suspension and dirty windshields. there's an argument that will hold up REAL well in court.
Is this a dig at me?
No it is not. it is a dig at some profoundly bad advice which you seem on the edge of considering.

I stand by my opinion that the car manufacturer put the door sticker on the car for a reason and have nothing further to add to that. as i said, the a-body did come stock with radial tires in the latter half of production, and i advise you to use that pressure as a guideline. Lack of maintenance and ill-advised mixing and matching of custom suspension components is NOT an excuse for running whatever pressure you like. That all goes out the window, along with pieces of your own body, if your tires leave the road. Good Luck~
Ok, I get it now.
I will never exceed the sidewall. The increase in MPG is not worth it to me. The sidwall is max at 44 PSI, I am running 35, and the sticker says 29, so I am 1/2 way between, leaning closer to the door rating. I will continue to repair / replace / upgrade suspension components as needed, to maintain a safe and secure ride. :)
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:27 am ]
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If someone wants to host the pics my friend from Florida stopped 2 weeks ago with his '06 Cummins OTR Hot Shot rig.

He has equipped it with a hydrogen generator. Bought one off the shelf from a company in Florida.

It draws 10-15amps. Had to start the system on Perrier mineral water and now runs it on distilled.

It adds a little hydrogen to the intake air. Makes it idle smoother, runs quiter, and gets 2mpg over what it used to.

It has a low water light, manual adjustment for the current

Says once he is up to speed he rests his foot on the accelerator doesn't really push it.

When he was here he was at 22-24,000lbs total weight and normally gets 11.5mpg and was knocking down 14.

Bad thing is he has to refill it every 150 miles or so. A windshield washer reservior with a pump would work. The chamber or tank holds 2 liters of water.
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