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About crank scrapers, windage tray and oil pan...
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37893		 Page 5 of 5
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:26 pm ]
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Quote:
I talked to Mike Jeffrey tonight. He will be making a run of windage trays and scrapers shortly.

His price on scrapers was $15, but that was for a rough cut "do-it-yourself" kit. His new one will be a copy of the scraper that is in his national record holding Diplomat motor. He will price it after he gets the first one made.

If interested call Mike at 308/324-3576.
Milodon has SBC and BBC scrapers for $11.49 so that sounds about right.
Author:  Saint 6 [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  windage tray & scrapers same for forged or cast crank?
I'm looking for a windage tray (maybe one from Mike?) if it's correct for the earlier forged crank. I should call him and ask, but maybe someone could chime in and clarify this for general info; would the tray or scrapers be cut differently or the same for either a forged or cast crank? I haven't looked at a cast crank, but I suspect the counterweights are different. 1st post on /6 forum, so Hello everyone!
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:35 pm ]
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All the trays Mike makes are the same.
Scrapers should be custom-fit to each engine and crank... for maximum performance.
DD
Author:  adiffrentcity [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:12 pm ]
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Glad to see this thread again, Charrlie any news on the dyno shootout?
Do you guys know how much money you need?
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:17 am ]
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Quote:
Glad to see this thread again, Charrlie any news on the dyno shootout?
Do you guys know how much money you need?
I don't think it will happen soon. I have not been able to do much on my engine/car. Life keeps getting in the way (time/money).
Author:  adiffrentcity [ Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:11 am ]
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I understand. Would still like to see before and after dyno runs if anyone is planning on installing one of kevin's scraper/tray combos.

Charrlie, just do what you can do, when you can do it. I'm in the same boat! :D
Author:  passing you [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:19 pm ]
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good stuff.

I still have the 1st try I made, almost identical but no doors.

they work great on the upstroke.
Author:  KLJohnson [ Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:02 pm ]
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Quote:
I understand. Would still like to see before and after dyno runs if anyone is planning on installing one of kevin's scraper/tray combos.

Charrlie, just do what you can do, when you can do it. I'm in the same boat! :D
I would be happy to send a free set out to someone willing to do the tests. Maybe even more than one free set to different people.

I have given away dozens of sets of parts like this over the past seven years. I would be happy to list a few. Not very many are ever followed through with (eight or ten out of dozens?). It is funny how I have gotten a lot more detailed feedback on parts that people have paid for than for free parts. Go figure. That one engineer from Chrysler bought the 2.4 parts and dynoed them on his own dime in his own dyno cell.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 pm ]
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I will have a crank scraper and windage tray in the 170 I'm building. I can't give away any high RPM horsepower or sacrifice oil control. I think people that pay for their pieces are more serious in the first place and feeling invested in something rarely hurts. I really wish I could afford a dry sump for this project, but it would delay running the car several months. Bonneville in 2011 is the goal.

I would like to be able to dyno with and without the scraper and/or windage tray, but money is tight. The machine shop does own a dyno and my good friend Bob has a very good working relationship with the shop so it's possible. Bob also offered to cover piston coating. Since we'll be cutting valve reliefs in stock replacement style forgings I like the idea of keeping heat out of the piston crown. I'll probably also notch the rods to help get oil to the bottom of the pistons to keep them cool. Collapsing a piston, dropping a valve and breaking a rod are my biggest concerns with this build.

Right now the pistons and rods are at the machine shop. The head welding wasn't up to par so I didn't pick it up today. If the rods aren't too far off in length I know I have a crankshaft problem as the deck heights are all over the place. There isn't enough meat left on the crank to fix the stroke as it's already -.030" on the rod journals. Cores are cheap though so I'm not worried.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:20 pm ]
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On my street cars I have been more concerned about oil control because of cornering, besides high rpm.

It is obvious that most street cars do not NEED a windage tray or scraper, since almost none of them have them and are fine.

Even on a fairly hard launching drag car you mostly just need a baffle in the back to keep the oil from climbing .

But a car that sees some sustained cornering forces can use all the help it can get to return oil to the pan and keep it there for the pickup. When you take a long corner, you lose several seconds of drain time with the oil somewhere up top, then it all dumps over the cam and crank.

The way I see it, if you are building a serious engine, do something extra to help control the oil. Just make sure it does not cause problems or break from vibration.

A baffle in the front of the sump for hard breaking is something else to think about.
A dyno is one thing, but a engine in a car bouncing around is another.
Author:  terrylittlejohn [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:44 pm ]
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a well designed oil pan is a good idea no matter what the cars is use for, braking baffles in a drag racing pan is a must or all the oil will be pushed forward and starve the engine of oil under hard braking in the shut-down area. :cry:
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:06 pm ]
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I agree, a well designed oil pan is always a benefit, even on a street engine. Scrapers can be a grey area for street engines, as they can eliminate most of the oil splash that many components rely on for getting oil at low RPM that don't have direct or pressurized oiling.
Author:  KLJohnson [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I agree, a well designed oil pan is always a benefit, even on a street engine. Scrapers can be a grey area for street engines, as they can eliminate most of the oil splash that many components rely on for getting oil at low RPM that don't have direct or pressurized oiling.
There are engines that rely on splash oiling for lubrication. These are generally pre-WWII designs. Many people will be familiar with air compressors like the IR T30 which work in this manner.

Modern pressurized oil systems fling oil from the rotating assembly after it has passed through the bearing shells. They do not and should not splash in the oil reservoir. Flung oil is continuously available.

Scrapers can be a grey area for street engines on the basis of cost. It costs more money to put them in place. There are examples of this in Mopar engines where scrapers were developed and then removed on the basis of cost. This was done under the aegis of the very designer of the slant six engine.

Windage trays have also been developed for Mopar engines and then removed for reasons of cost.

Full on dry sumps suck oil out of the crankcase as quickly as possible with no intended oil splash. They are considered a superior method of oil control versus wet sumps. Dry sumps still allow flung oil.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:06 pm ]
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I wasn't meaning "splash" to mean literal splashing of components in the oil pan like many industrial engines do. "Slung" or "flung" as you called it, is more along the lines of what I was meaning, I guess just a different way of phrasing it than I am used to saying it.
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