Again, I have a detailed design for an aftermarket SL6 head. I have dimensioned drawings.

I have enough information to have gone out to many suppliers for quotes and have collected costs. (two seperate times) I have quoted the cost to produce the casting patterns, do the castings and to make maching fixtures, do CNC programs and purchase all the drills, end mills and taps needed to do the machine work. (7 seperate operations / set-ups)

There is no question that a great aftermarket SL6 cylinder can be produced and we do NOT need any of the prototype heads to do so.
Here is what is needed:
-A market, to sell finished heads into, at the tune of $2K to 3K each.
-"Seed money" because Suppliers want to be paid COD or in 30 days for any work they do. The project will rack-up a bunch of cost before the first unit is ready for sale.
-Port shape refinement, basically make a single port "flow box" and get it onto a flow bench for "fine tuning".
(This can be done while the rest of casting patterns are being built)

There is always interest in a "state of the art" aftermarket SL6 head but the interest falls off quickly as you start to put real world cost numbers onto the table.

I have held both of these heads in my hands, inspected and measured them. I did all the porting work on the one Steve M. is currently running. They are both early prototypes, Spark plug tube type heads. I have all the info I need from those heads.
DD

if they were 2 to 3 k each, is that price based on a certain amount of units you would need to make your money back (break even), or was it more to see a return on investment (because of all your time and effort)?

I beleive your estimates, I am just curoius of the amount of units you think we would need to have a ready market for. I can't think of more than a dozen people myself.

personally I spent $800 on my head (flow chart is posted under sick6's duster in the gallery) with all the bells and whistles, it would have to be one hell of a gain over what I have to make me spend that much coin on it all over again. I am not against the idea, and I do beleive there is much to gain, its just starting to sound like a pipe dream again.

I would imagine that if anyone produces a new slant head they would have to have enough people comitted to buying heads @ a cost to them of around $1000-$1200 TOPS for a head on the first run to cover everything. In order for the operation to stay in production, heads will need to cost NO MORE than $800-$1000. I'm no marketing expert but I'm just thinking aloud the most practical of prices one would probably pay for a head. I'm thinking many newbies with money to spend on thier projects are more willing to spend $800 on a REAL peformance head and keep their slant than spend money to convert AND buy the V8. I DO understand business costs and I think this is feasable.

I don't typically sell things on ebay (heck, I hardly even buy ), so I'm kind of out of my element, but I would like to think that no, I wouldn't retract my listing. But then again, I usually end up buying high and selling low, so maybe I just don't have the right "attitude" to make money on car parts.

On that note, the guy is probably trying to sell something he got out of a garbage can. If the $1500 wasn't enough to begin with, he should have started higher. Ebay has turned into a "trick-yur-way-to-riches" scam-bag to me. Hidden "handling" cost, when to list, hidden reserves, blah, blah, blah. If the system was being used the way it should be, this wouldn't be an issue. I say let the guy be buried with it.
No, I just said it was a dream.
Gotta agree with you on that.

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'15 Chrysler 200S V6
'74 Duster 360, factory 4 speed car

Anyone wanting to start up production can check out a similar undertaking at classicinlines.com The owner is an admin. at fordsix.com and there is also a sticky under 144-250 small block peformance. Maybe someone can contact him and see if he is willing to spill "real costs" ? Right now their head is estimated @ $1500 retail and there are many people interested.

I rest my case. If someone wanted to buy the head to run it, more power to them and I'm sorry the cost went up. Otherwise, I don't see the need to waste the money.

Hey Doc, did you give any thought to having the head cast in Argentina? Someone pointed it out earlier and it sounded like costs could be reduced. Just wondering.

I say someone starts looking at forming a corporation we can invest in and use Doc's designs. If Doug would be ok with that, that is. Come up with a target "seed amount" to get this running so we have a start. Get the head produced and on the market, and if it starts making money for the corporation, kick the profit back to the investors (based on level of investment). If not, make sure each investor gets a cylinder head before the corporation is dissolved.

And, yes I know the likely hood of a slant six head making money is slim to nill. But a corporation would protect the investors and the CEO(?) so risk of loss is greatly reduced.

At least I think so. I'm no business major, so maybe I'm missing something with the corporation idea.

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'15 Chrysler 200S V6
'74 Duster 360, factory 4 speed car

I am willing to go 1500-2000 for a fully machined head! I would like the valves and springs included in this price,but it wouldnt bother me too bad if I had to get my own valves/springs!


I hope someone else is seriously interested in this! I dont have the ability to design or help design a head,and no connections to help bump one into production,but I will save some money aside to help one go into production/buy one for myself

Perhaps the key to making a "new production" slant six head viable would be incorporation of radical changes that you could not normally (easily) get by porting an original iron head.

Quench would be a wonderful thing.
Hemispherical combustion chambers would also cause more people to dig deeper into their wallets. But the Hemi was discontinued in 59 partly because it was expensive (and heavy).

But... I think that slant sixers are a frugal lot... even though we have a much more expensive hobby than those who hop-up A and B engines.

In the final analysis it all comes down to that old formula of cost vs demand. The less the demand, the greater the cost (and vice versa). When you're talking about producing probably less than 100 of any specialized, complex item, things get expensive quickly!

Perhaps someone could do better by making a batch of "off the shelf" ported and polished heads from a set of used cores. Including valves, springs, etc. Something that we could just order and have delivered in a week or so. Is that possible?

I would like an improved cast iron head so I can run more compression and get better mid range torque. I am also a World Class cheapskate.

An alloy head would cost less to machine and save quite a bit of weight. I think an amateur iron casting would have better durability than a low budget allow head. http://fordsix.com head project is ongoing with no public availability.

A "Hemi" casting based on the Toyota 3TC would be a fine choice for a few racers. The basic specs of the 3TC are "spot on". Aftermarket CNC milled 3TC heads have larger ports. The 3TC is a blatant copy of the Mopar design. The existing aftermarket 3TC domed pistons and valve train parts might save some bucks, with custom rods needed. The Hemi is a cross flow design that goes against the normal slant, but it's classic Mopar.

Tom and All,

You are quite correct. Cameron's 10sec Valiant is a street car as much as my daily driver. It idles/sounds like a stocker and has no tach, headrests, shoulder belts, rollcage, or anything a 66 Valiant didn't come with on the basic chassis of the car. Has an aftermarket rearend and modified 904 trans and, of course, the motor. As far as I can tell, it is long distance drivable and totally streetable.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

One thing you guys dont realize just how good the Slant Six head is. If just pocket ported and the bowls bleaned with a bigger valve it flows as good some high out put engines out there.

The Ford guys have just got there Aluminum head reproduced and made it off a Iron head design and just changed a few things. There all excited about this and it dont flow no more than a ported Iron Slant Six head. And it also doest cost but around $1500.00 just like the Auzzy Hemi Six AL head and the Jeep 4.0 AL head. I dont see why it should cost more than $1500.00 no matter how many are made and sold. The guys that gets the Jeep 4.0 head made only does 10 to 30 heads a lot when he gets them made. Summit even list the head for $1395.00.

So why does it have to cost $2000.00 to $3000.00 It looks to me like someone needs to talk to right people and the cost could be brought down a lot. If all three of these other companies have producted a inline Six head for $1500.00 why cant it be done for the slant. None of these other heads are being sold in high numbers. Hech if a SLant head was made available that out flowed the Iron head I bet it would sale more than any of these other heads. There has got to be more Slants out there than any of the other brands. And When others start seeing what the Slant can really do there is going to be others that start building them.

You dont need some crazy redesgned head. All it needs to do is flow alittle better than the Iron head and have a better chamber design. Raise the ports ,add some meat to the ports to allow for more porting and bigger valves, add some meat to the deck to make it stronger and to where it can be decked for tight combustion chamber. And you have it, that is all that is needed. If it flowed 210/170 out of the box it would be a great head. This would allow around 250/210 flow when ported . That is close to the flow of a fully ported 440 Mag head ( 906) . The SLant dont have to feed as much Cubic Inches so a head that flows more than this would be a waste and would even kill torque and make the engine have to be reved to 8000rpms to make power. You dont want that.

It being a Aluminum head and better chamber would allow power from a tigher CR. You could even run 11:1 on pump gas. Then the better flow on top of that and a lot of power would be made. It could still feed the Slant enough to rev high RPM even at the flow numbers I quoted.

I myself would not have built a slant before. Just not enough power for me. But now with Turbos making the power possible I am all for building one. The slowest street car I have ever built for myself ran low 10's. So for me to consider building a Slant shows a lot about where & how things are changing. Even without a Aluminum head this is possible from a Slant Six in a full weight car. They have a better flowing Iron head than just about any inline Six old school Iron American engine out there. What Cameron Tilley did is not something out of reach for anyone that wants a hot slant that is drivable and still has durability. Turbos can do a lot for the Slant. You just have to know how turbos work and how to size them. What Cameron done has more to do with with his intake,exhaust & turbo selection than anything else he did.
The SLant Six iron head fully ported will flow the same amount as the Buick GN heads ported. They run 9's with the buick iron heads. With heaver cars than most A body Mopars.

When it comes to turbos you guys need to be buying things like T61's, GTK66BB (or even bigger) turbos instead of stock GN or 2.2 Mopar turbos, or 50trims. You would be making 600hp at the drop of a hat if you did. I am about three mounths away from having three complete turbo kits ready for the Slant six. I am talking the kinda kits that will give you the power that should be gotten from a kit ( power like Tilley made). 500hp will be the smallest one. Someone needs to pick the ball up on a AL head & even a good priced forged crankshaft (doesnt have to be billet, just a bit more stroke and stronger than stock that uses shelf rod sizes). If they dont someone is going to beat them to it. It just a matter of time.


Jess

I like your pragmatism! The world didn't wait for a gold-plated Rubik's cube; we don't need to be prissy about an aluminum head! gimme one; I'll take it from there.

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. . . there was good sport at his making.

OK, I have entered the bidding as "Bidder 8".

Should be interesting!

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Lou, the seller must not want to sell to you, he ended the auction 3 minutes after you bid!

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Slant Cecil

That's a load of horseshit!! This guy acts like he wants to sell something he has no interest in keeping, then when it doesn't look like the get-rich-quick thing he thought it was gonna be, he yanks the piece.

I really hope he is reading this thread....let him EAT that al head. At this point, I wouldn't bid on it if he started it at one buck with no reserve.

Can you tell I've about had my fill of Ebay pissants?

Roger