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Crash course in Electronic Ignition
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10018		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dodge_Demon_Dog [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Crash course in Electronic Ignition
Well, today has been a joy (seriously!). Armed with the great info gleaned from this board I sucessfully converted my Demon to chrysler electronic ignition. I had a pertronix conversion in it that the previous owner installed, but I just wasn't happy with it, as it seems more of a "get rid of points" system than a good electronic ignition. It does a good job if a person just wanted to never hassle with points again, but performance was not too good.
At last, a local junkyard had something I needed a complete electronic ignition wiring harness out of a '75 Scamp. The motor was out so no luck on the distributor and the control module had been sitting in the rain. So I purchased a reman distributor, new ballast resistor and module. All in all a relatively easy swap.
Something odd is going on with the timing though. Once everything was in I set the timing. This was the first time I have had a light on this motor :oops: having "set it by ear" for so long. Well, the timing mark is not even near the pointer, it is much further advanced. I have no pinging, I have aftermarket intake, headers, cam etc. It seems to like the advance, but it is odd. I am chalking it up to the variances in timing sets made for the /6. Any suggestions? Anyways, I will close thanks to this great site for the info, wiring diagrams and advice!!

Jesse

(Formerly Sleddogg)
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I've heard stories on here of slants running with timing off by 180deg (people setting distributor to 0 deg at tdc exhaust instead of tdc compression on cyl #1).

So it is deffinately not odd that your engine is running. You say you have no pinging, but have you driven it under high rpm or under load? Try revving it up in the driveway and see if you get any backfires. It would depend on the advance curve in the distributor as well.

I would get the timing set right (or at least close enough....) or else you may get undesired conseqences later on. Mileage may be adversley affected as well.
Author:  phogroian [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Funny you should mention this, I adjusted the timing on my 225 /6 in my '65 Valiant for the first time last week and was shocked to see that at idle it was over 10 degrees BTDC! I backed it off to TDC and the engine ran rough. I then advanced it to 5 Degrees BTDC (what I wanted anyway) and it smoothed out somewhat. But it seems to run best at 12 Degrees BTDC! Do you think the timing indicator tab is out of alignment? Is there a way to tell if this is the case? I changed over from points to Pertronix last year.
Author:  Slant6Ram [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  10 is fine
10 BTDC runs fine on both my slant car and truck.

You may have been lucky and found a distibutor with a small amount of mechanical advance and the motor will enjoy a 10 deg advance setting, like my car. At 5 BTDC, my truck was not responsive enough for my liking, but at 10 BTDC the distributor has too much mechanical advance, and it pings if I push it. I settled for 8 BTDC and I have to run a better grade of gas if I want to race around in it.

Eventually I'll get to adjusting the amount of total mechanical advance in the distributor, but until then, that's just how it works.
Author:  Dodge_Demon_Dog [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:53 am ]
Post subject: 
The interesting thing about this is that there is not enough adjustment to get the timing mark back onto the pointer. Maybe the pointer is incorrectly placed. Under load and high revs no pinging. Mileage sucks but I have an eddy 600 and can't keep my foot out of it. But it's running great..nice idle, good power, I think I will leave it for now.

As far as being 180 out, it's not...when I first put it together it was 180 out for sure...backfiring and would't start..got it at TDC on compression and moved it and fired right up.


I just don't know :)

Jesse
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
What could be going on here is that the damper could have slipped. I have had problems with the damper ring "walking" on my street/strip /6 Duster. I installed a "reman" damper (which turned out to be basically just a clean up of a used damper, but the rubber was in much better shape than my original), and the mark was off on it, too. I verified this by using a tool to find true TDC, #1 cyl. I re-marked the damn damper ;) and also scribed an index mark between the hub and outer ring so I can identify any future slippage.

But perhaps yours is not off, even. If it's just that you can't get the timing in the range where you want it, it could be that you simply need to pull your distributor back out and re-index it one tooth forward or back... And of course you already know that there is another adjusting slot on the bottom of the distributor housing that gives you more travel, right?

D/W
Author:  Slant6Ram [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Distributor Adjustment
There are 2 types of distributor hold downs that I've seen. It sounds like you have the common "bar" type which is more difficult use. The 2 piece clamp style hold down is much nicer.

It's tricky to get the bar's rough adjustment since you must pull the dist to change it and once you've maxed out both adjustments, you'll have to move one tooth forward or back and start again. With the bar, I can't adjust between TDC and 10 BTDC without pulling the dist (and resetting one tooth or the second bar adjustment)

I've heard a rich fuel mixture will reduce ping, so that 600 may encourage the extra advance. If you jet it down or lean it out (I couldn't tell you how) don't be surprised to need the timing advanced a little less.

Where did your setting end up, and at what rpm?
Author:  Dodge_Demon_Dog [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  The wierdness continues
Thanks for all the replies!

As far as the extra bolt for the timing adjustment bar, I seen it and I've adjusted it to no avail. Last night when I got it running again, I used a screwdriver to find TDC as best I could. At TDC the mark was lined up...(if this is TRUE TDC I am unsure) When it is running and I set the timing back towards the pointer (as much as I can) the engine idles down and begins to run rough. Just as a guesstimation I think the engine is running about 15-17 degrees BTDC at @ 900 RPM. I am checking the timing with the engine hot, vaccum advance distconnected and am using a quality inductive timing light. Another thing is that while watching the mark, occasionally it will go away :( and then pop up again. This happens every 5-10 seconds. Is this a sign of a miss? Since I didn't build this motor maybe I should take the time to pull the front cover, find out which cam I have (the motor was already built when I bought the car...the shops invoice for the motor work just said "performance cam" no specs...) as instructed in other posts, and degree the cam and see what I have after that? I know this engine has some untapped power. Obviously it is over-carbed, and tuning it leaner is in the future, so is headwork. But for now, I would like to get the timing correct.

Thanks again guys, you've all been lifesavers!

Jesse


Oh, Dennis Weaver...I saw pics of your car in the photo section and was curious if that was a fiberglass hood you had or did you install the scoops...if you did install them, how did you know where to place them? I have a sixpack scocp now and will eventually go to the "raisin bran" scoops. (That cracks me up!)
Thanks
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The wierdness continues
Quote:
Oh, Dennis Weaver...I saw pics of your car in the photo section and was curious if that was a fiberglass hood you had or did you install the scoops...if you did install them, how did you know where to place them
Most of the hoods that I've seen for '70 thru '72 Valiant and Duster have the bottom side stamped out (the rienforcement) for the scoop bolt holes. That's not even the original hood for the car, a tree took care of that one - the one on it now is from a '72 Valiant in the junkyard, and it had the holes (come to think of it, I'm gonna check the underside of the hood on Kermit, the '72 Valiant I've since aquired). I don't say they all have them, just the ones I've seen and paid attention to. I think it was easier to go ahead and stamp them out all the same with the holes rather than have a special stamping for the scoop cars. I've also noticed that my '70 has cut-outs in the deck-lid structure for a spoiler which it never had.

So, the easiest thing to do is dimple it from the back-side with a centering punch, then place the scoop on top of the hood and mark exactly where the holes need to be. You can't tell where all the holes will go from the underhood cut-outs, but there are enough to properly locate the scoops. The fact that I had a Twister that came with those scoops factory was a bonus, but I easily located the scoops on the green Duster without referencing it.

My friend has a '72 Demon and he was going to run the single-piece "dual" scoop, like you'd have seen on a GSS Demon... He was thrilled when I pointed out to him that it had the reliefs in the underhood structure for that scoop, also from the factory...

D/W
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